Decoding The Emperor: Power, Boundaries, And Compassionate Leadership

The stone throne, the rams, the red robes over hidden armor—The Emperor looks intense at first glance, and that’s exactly why we wanted to explore him. This card embodies masculine energy, structure, and leadership that can harden into control or soften into safety. From Aries fire and mountain endurance to the quiet river running behind him, each symbol reflects a truth most of us live daily: we need form, but we also need flow.

We talk about our initial resistance resistance to this authority and father archetype, and what compassionate leadership really looks like—boundaries as protection, not punishment; routines that create space instead of pressure; and the courage to say “maybe it will, maybe it won’t” without collapsing into shutdown. We also look at reparenting the inner child and how imaginal practices can shift the urge to over-control into grounded self-leadership.

You’ll leave with reflection prompts to bring this archetype into your own life: Where do you need more structure? Where can you soften? What does healthy masculine energy look like for you?

If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review. Tell us—what boundary helps you feel safe, not small?

If this episode spoke to you, subscribe and leave a review so other listeners can find Heart on the Table. New episodes land every Wednesday.

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Transcript

Introducing The Emperor

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Welcome back to Heart on the Table. Today we're gonna be covering the Emperor.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

The next step in our tarot journey.

First Impressions Of The Card

SPEAKER_04 1:01

The Emperor is card number four in the Major Arcana. And we are just going to start by looking at the card and telling you what we notice about it. And looking at this card, I am first drawn to the ram's heads on the throne that the Emperor is sitting on. There's four of them. Two on either side of the backrest or the back side of the throne, and two on either side of the armrests. I am also noticing the armor underneath the red robes that he's wearing. And I think I'm noticing that the most because I read about what that symbolizes. And the mountains in the back stand out, which is interesting because it's the same kind of color of the background. Like there's not much distinguishing it from the background. It's just on either side. And it's kind of small in the margins. It's on either side of the Emperor. But I am drawn to that. It also kind of looks like he has a ram's head on his left shoulder. I'm just noticing that. I can only see half of it though, so I'm just assuming that that's what it is. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

I'm laughing. I think I'm just looking at this card and I'm like, this card is the first card that's just so different than like all of the rest of the cards we've done so far.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yeah.

Symbols: Rams, Armor, Mountains, River

SPEAKER_00 2:33

The person on this card, I would say this is the first card that really embodies a male figure. Because the fool could be male or female, like it's very ambiguous. And this is really, well, from what I read, the archetype of like the father. And when I look at this card, I just see a man sitting there very stern-faced, very like broad-shouldered. The first thing that I just notice is like this is a very this is the emperor, right? I notice that he has some jewels on his crown. He's holding some things. He's holding like some kind of staff. Called the onk or the onk. Yeah. And then he's holding like a is it a fruit? A globe. A globe. I notice his red robes. And similar to you, I notice that that is likely a ram's head on his shoulder. He's sitting in a cement, it looks like a cement throne. Like it looks very like this cannot be moved. Um, and yeah, I notice the mountains in the background that are like you said, similar. I notice only because I've read a little about this card, there's this little symbol of a river right there. Just barely. I didn't even see that. You wouldn't. It's so small. I know. And like if you listened to the episode last week, The Empress, she has that river flowing through her card very freely.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

The Emperor, it's there, but we don't know, like, it's there's not a lot of room for it in his card. Something that also stands out to me is that yes, he's wearing armor, and the boots are like so pointy that they just look like they could be almost like a weapon. Like they just look so pointy. And he's clearly like a very he's an older man. You can see that by like his beard is gray, it's long and gray. And there's the four Rams heads, like you noticed, and this is card number four.

SPEAKER_04 4:46

Oh, I didn't even make that distinction.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Four Rams heads, card number four. I read a little bit about the significance of them number four last night, too. So we can talk about that when we get into some of our further breakdown of this card.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

One thing I think that as we're just getting started with our observations of this card, one thing I think that stands out just about my initial reactions to this card is this is one that I texted Brie about earlier this week and was like, I'm not really feeling this card. Like same. And I think it's interesting because I I know like the themes that we're going to be talking about today. And while they are important, I recognize that maybe those are things that I'm not, I don't know, that I haven't reclaimed myself. Maybe my initial reaction is just so not connected to this card, which is a lot of information about myself, I think. So I think it's interesting just what intuitively or instinctively comes up for myself when I look at this card. Knowing like the direction that we're going to take with some of these themes. Um, I'm sure this will make more sense as we dive into it.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Yeah. And I agree with you because I have a gaping father wound. So I think that's why in this card I like look at it and viscerally, I'm just like, oof.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

I mean, here we go, right? Well, and I think too, just as women, like we aren't taught to embrace our masculinity, our masculine side, right? I mean, we're not really taught to embrace our feminine side either, but they're all they're just two sides of a different coin that I feel like it's hard for us to embody.

Masculine Energy And Initial Resistance

Authority Rooted In Compassion

SPEAKER_00 6:36

I would agree with that. And I think that is also some of my like hesitancy with the card, like the more feminine cards. I'm able because it's something that I feel more tapped into at this phase in my life, I'm able to like really connect and like welcome it. And then I see this, and I'm just like, cement, cement throne, Jesus, you know. Okay, let's just talk about some of the meanings here. So the emperor represents masculine order, leadership, and stability. He is the archetype of structure and authority, but also the father, protector, and builder of systems that create safety after chaos. So there's four total rams' heads. The ram's heads are a symbol of Aries energy. But you are an Aries, aren't you?

SPEAKER_04 7:19

I am.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Still working on embodying that energy. The Ram. I'm still working on embodying the Ram. Yes. The Ram corresponds to Aries, the zodiac sign ruled by Mars, and it brings in fire, initiative, courage, and drive. Aries is the warrior and protector energy behind the emperor. The ram's heads also resemble strength and determination. Rams scale mountains, symbolizing endurance and the will to climb toward mastery. Rams are the leaders of their herd, charging forward first, taking risks, embodying the pioneer spirit. The four heads represent dominion over the four elements earth, air, fire, water, or the four corners of stability, north, east, south, and west. This reinforces the emperor's grounded and all-encompassing command of this material world. And then the mountains in the background. Mountains represent unshakable foundations. They're rocky and barren, shows the emperor's distance from emotion and intuition. He lives in a realm of logic and order. He has climbed to the top, suggesting hard-earned wisdom through experience, but also a reminder that power can isolate if disconnected from empathy. Many trauma survivors build their own mountains or barriers of control or self-protection. And they may be high and strong, but sometimes also very lonely. The globe represents the world under his command, mastery over the material realm, and authority rooted in worldly experience. In some depictions, it's paired with a scepter in the other hand, symbolizing both power and responsibility. The orb is a reminder for us of what is in our own sphere of control. What is ours to lead and what is not. Healing often involves learning where our influence ends and acceptance begins.

SPEAKER_04 9:16

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

I really like that a lot.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

The armor under the robe is, I think, just symbolic of the soft power that still holds boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:27

So there's the robe, but there's also the armor. I think initially looking at this card, like it feels very cold and very rigid, but I like looking at it just a little bit further about what lies underneath or what's maybe not so obvious about it. And I think that goes again just to illustrate or highlight my instinctual relationship to this card. It's a lot easier for me to connect with the last two cards, the high priestess and the empress on feminine wisdom, because that is what I'm most interested in or what I'm most drawn to. For the feminine cards, the feminine archetype, the side of that we're so used to embodying is smallness or is meekness, I guess, so to speak. And I myself have entered into a phase of my life where I'm really trying to reclaim the power or the empowerment or the embodiment piece of that. And I think for this card, maybe what is so standoffish about the Emperor is just the feeling of cold, rigid, and indifference. But I think the other side of that that maybe we're not instinctually drawn to is like the softness behind that. I know one of the themes we're going to be talking about is authority based off of compassion instead of fear. And I think that that's maybe less so prominent in my mind, and so that's not where it initially is drawn to, but is very important to talk about. Yeah. I can think of a lot of things I would like to say about the men in my life being sources of compassion instead of fear.

Control, Uncertainty, And The Illusion Of Safety

SPEAKER_00 11:06

The other thing, so the river in the background, if we remember from the Empress card, the river was just flowing freely and was very present and was kind of a symbol of all things kind of growing from that, right? It says here the emperor sits high and dry on his stone throne, far removed from the water, representing his control over emotion. The water symbolizes the unconscious intuition and empathy, all the emotional qualities he keeps at a distance. So he hasn't cut himself off from feeling entirely, but he does not lead from feeling. The river still flows quietly in the background. It reminds us that even in order, structure, and authority, that emotion is always present. It may not rule him, but it sustains him. The Emperor's distance from water mirrors how trauma survivors often learn to over-function from logic and control to avoid being overwhelmed by feeling. Healing means inviting the river closer, allowing emotion to inform leadership, not threaten it. Oftentimes, with my work as a therapist, people are very fearful of their emotion. And people are so fearful that if emotion rises, if we invite that river a little bit closer to us, that river of emotion, will it ever stop flowing?

SPEAKER_04 12:30

Almost like if you release a bit of the flow, will it be overpowering or overwhelming? Like will you get caught up in the torrent of the water, the emotion, and not be able to ground yourself again? Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Well, I think there's some good things to this card, right? Like, especially with the globe symbolizing we really need to be focusing on what is within our power of control versus controlling from a fearful place, trying to control everything, control the whole world. No, the globe in his hand is his world, not the whole world. This card symbolizes a lot of the like rigidity as well. There's some good things here, but also there's a lot of rigidity. The mountains are rigid, the stone throne is rigid. There's a lot of like, I need to have control. And part of the grieving experience of being human is probably recognizing how much and how little control we really do truly have and being comfortable sitting with uncertainty.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

Yeah. Sitting with that unknown leaves us vulnerable. Yeah. And the other side of that being also open to potential. Which is hard to reframe that vulnerability. Right. Like we are so easily just convinced that vulnerability means lack of control or that something bad could happen. And the other side of that is also something incredible could happen. Yeah. But we are often, especially in an anxious society, so often focused on maybe it's the illusion of control, right? Because we don't really we don't really have a lot of control over things. Like when you really get down to think about what is within our sphere of control, not a lot, but the illusion of control makes us feel safe. And I think there's a difference between like trust in the uncertainty and the feeling of safety that comes from that, and then fear of the uncertainty and what we perceive as safety in that.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Yeah. Yeah. And maybe like the importance of shedding some of that perception of that we have control over so much.

SPEAKER_04 14:51

Which is scary because it can feel like, you know, the ground is being ripped out from underneath our feet, much like the fool, right? Like you could take that next step and fall right off that cliff. Yeah. Or maybe there's no cliff. And maybe you'll fly. Who knows? Yeah. You won't know until it happens. But I think again, the illusion of control, and again, the illusion of safety that comes with the illusion of control, right? We build this false sense of stability around ourselves. And then when something does inevitably fall out of our hands, like maybe overanalyze or hyper focus on how that could have happened, right? Because we planned everything, right? We did everything we could, everything within our power to make sure that that didn't happen, and it still happened.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

We did everything we were supposed to do.

SPEAKER_04 15:41

Yeah.

Power, Socialization, And Owning Achievement

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Right? And inevitably, life happens. I want to read some of our Instagram questions that we asked related to this card this week. So one of those was do you feel comfortable being seen as powerful? 20% said yes, 30% said not yet, and 50% said depends who's watching.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

I think that's important. Like to think about who you are comfortable being powerful in front of and who you're not comfortable being powerful in front of, and and why is that?

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Why and what qualities do those people embody where you're feeling comfortable being powerful around those people and not so powerful around these other people. And also as women, relationship to our own power. Like, I was kind of thinking on this question and I was reflecting myself, and I was thinking about like things have been going really well with my business. I was very scared to take my maternity leave and then come back. Like I felt like I was like abandoning my other business like baby, right? Like this is my baby, this is my business. I grew it, and I was like, oh my gosh, I it's very necessary for me to take this time off. And am I gonna have anything to come back to? And now it's going really well, and I'm feeling really good about it. And I keep having this internal monologue of like, and this probably happened to me by accident. I've just gotten lucky versus embodying, like, no, I worked for this and I have I mean, I come back to this often, right? Like, and I think there's an element of like you have a business, there's some power in that, yeah, right. But I keep going back to this place of like I'm not supposed to be powerful though, you know.

SPEAKER_04 17:33

Like what what could that mean that you are powerful or that you do give yourself credit? What could that mean?

Routines, Shutdown, And Surrender

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Yeah, I don't know, but I feel like I was taught to not be powerful, yeah, as a woman, right? Or I don't know. It's just weird. It's like embodying, no, I and I think all of us collectively should be embodying, especially as women in patriarchy, like our worth, right? And I don't know, sometimes I just think it's hard to like, it's hard to come up against that socialization of like we get to be powerful too. We'll be talking about embodying power more next week in our surprise episode on Monday. The next question was when life feels out of control, do you tighten up routines? 44% of you said yes. And do you pull away or shut down? 56% of you said pull away or shut down.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

This one was interesting for me to answer on my own because I like thought about it for a good long minute and was like, I actually think I kind of do both. I think initially my reaction is to try to tighten up some routines to see if I can gain some semblance of control. And when I realize that that doesn't work out, then I shut down and withdraw. So both.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

What is shutting down for you? Or what does shutting down look like?

SPEAKER_04 18:58

I guess an important distinction for myself to make right in this moment as we're talking about it would be the difference between shutting down and surrendering.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

Maybe I tighten up and try to build a more routine for some semblance of control, then realize, okay, this is it. And then realize it's not working out. Shut down, withdraw, completely swing to the other side of the spectrum, right? Like the pendulum, just like boom, so fast. The other way, just like, nope, I give up. And then realizing once everything settles, right, that it's somewhere in the middle, and I can just surrender and what will happen will happen. And recognizing that, yeah, I actually don't have any control and it's going to be okay. That is how it happens. One, two, and three.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah. That is a good third option. Like when life feels out of control. I think tightening up routines can be a good adaptive thing to do. Like, let's recognize what what is it that we can gain control over, what's in the palm of our hand. But also, we don't want to swing so far to we're trying to tighten up and have control over everything.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Which there that could be like the shadow side of trying to tighten up our routines. We're trying to make like really rigidly maintain control. And then pulling away or shutting down, well, yeah, that's just like our system. We're just like tired and we're kind of done. But being able to land in between the two is a good third option where we recognize like it is what it is, and my life must keep going.

SPEAKER_04 20:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

It's making me think of OCD and like the OCD training. And I I don't know if I shared anything about the OCD training yet, but my favorite thing, my main takeaway for myself was the phrase, maybe it'll work out, maybe it won't work out.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yeah.

Anxiety, OCD, And Holding Duality

SPEAKER_00 20:53

And just holding both and the duality of all of that. We talked in that training about a compulsion being one of the compulsions, a common one, a mental compulsion, being like so reassuring of yourself, like mentally reassuring yourself constantly. Like, it'll be fine. It's gonna go fine. It'll be fine. I'm gonna be fine. And recognizing that as maybe it won't be fine, but like you probably get through it, redefining what get through it means. And that just stood out to me because I have a tendency to be like, I'll be fine. And like when I say I'll be fine, I'm like, I think I do embody some of the like maybe it'll work out, maybe it won't work out, I'll be fine either way. I think there's an important distinction between I'll be fine, period, versus like maybe it'll work out, maybe it won't work out. I'm just gonna kind of relinquish my control and the rigidity that I think I need in order to be fine.

Reparenting The Inner Child

SPEAKER_04 21:55

Yeah. Which as I'm hearing you talk about the surrendering piece and the differences between I'll be fine versus maybe it will, maybe it won't. I think I'm picking up on the the underlying, I don't know if it's a theme, but like the is it coming from fear or is it coming from compassion? Which I think is one of the major themes that is coming up just for this card. Where is that originating from? And when I think about it, I'm gonna dive right in to like to to motherhood, and there are so many things that I think about in the beginning of my experience as a new mom that like I tricked myself into believing I had control over, and I think that's going to be a lifelong lesson. Like, I have no control, no control whatsoever, but it's going to be okay, regardless. And having external sources of validation, like other mom friends, for example, or like other female mentors, that just makes it a little bit easier to be okay with that. Because I'm not, it's this is not like I'm inventing this experience, right? Like, and I think that's what we so often forget just about human experiences in general, is this is not neat, like this is not unique to me. Yeah. Maybe it feels that way, or circumstantially it is, but like so many other humans have experienced this and gotten through it just fine. Or have found what they needed, or have leaned on people for support. And I think when we can find that support that's strong and reliable and powerful in a way that's gentle and compassionate and not fearful or controlling, that is where transformation takes place. Like real, true, genuine, meaningful transformation comes from a place of strength that's not overwhelming. I don't know if it's the right word, but that strength that is soft.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:12

Strength that is gentle, strength that is understanding and compassionate, and not strength that is punishing.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Not strength that is punishing. I love that. I think in hearing you kind of pick up on that fear, like, are we doing things based out of fear? Are we trying to maintain control based out of fear versus out of compassion? Right? Like it just made me reflect on that. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't work out. I'm gonna be fine either way. I'm fine, and like really trying to convince myself of that is absolutely coming from a place of fear. Like when I'm very rigid or I'm like driving down the road and something's kind of going on in my life, and I'm just like ruminating on that, and I'm like, it's gonna be fine. I'm gonna be fine. It's absolutely coming from anxiety where I'm like, I have to be fine, you know, like I'm absolutely I'm doubling down on convincing myself it's gonna be fine because I'm so nervous. Yeah, but if we can just allow the anxiety to kind of come up and be present and still do whatever it is that's scaring us anyway, we're kind of embodying the more compassionate side of things because the anxiety it can come, right? It can be like the river that's kind of distance from the emperor here. It can be there and we can experience it, and it can just be versus like kind of driving our anxiety a little bit further each time. We're like, I'm gonna be fine, and our anxiety is ramping up.

SPEAKER_04 25:43

Yeah, it's almost like self-fulfilling, like you reinforce that negative anxiety, right? Like by trying to convince yourself that it's going to be fine. As I was listening to you speak about that and like trying to put it into words, that that's what's happening, right? That you're trying to reinforce that anxiety or reinforce the idea that you have control in a situation where you really don't. And allowing yourself, it's okay. I will acknowledge like it's scary to let your imagination or let your mind run away with the idea of what if it's not fine.

unknown 26:22

Totally.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

That is incredibly scary. You know, you're sitting in your car or whatever, you're driving on your way, whenever you have a moment to think, and you maybe allow yourself to imagine what it's going to be like if it's not okay. And that's terrifying. And at the same time, I think that that is what our minds need or what it's asking for, right? Like the louder that we try to convince ourselves I'm fine, the more that we bury the what if it's not, and the more that it's going to come up or show up or try to make itself known in other ways, right? It's always going to come up. And all it wants is to be listened to. Again, with everything else that we have been talking about in our previous episodes. Like this negative side, this shadow side that we don't want to acknowledge, all it wants is to be listened to and validated. I mean, if you think about being a child, I feel like being a child is where most of my anxiety has started. I can only speak for myself, maybe collectively.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

I can relate. There's two people.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

Yeah. You can speak for me too. I am author. No, just kidding. But as a child, especially developmentally, like you start being afraid of things, maybe about I don't know if it's four to six or six to eight.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Gotta be four. Charlie's four. Yeah, I was thinking freaked out by things.

Ongoing Healing And Changing Wounds

SPEAKER_04 27:54

Yeah, but just like things start to be scary. Yeah. And it's quick. I mean, as a child, those things are real. And it is very quickly, I think, dismissed, but not out of malintent, right? It's just that we're adults, we know there's nothing to be afraid of in the dark, or maybe we don't, but that's what we've convinced ourselves of. So we are trying to convince our child of that. And I think being able to sit with ourselves even in that moment, maybe imagine that we're children again. You can sit with yourself as a child and validate them. Give them the validation that they never received, give them the time that was just so casually brushed aside, right? Like that is what we need in that moment. Imagining myself as a child, imagining the fears that I had that I expressed that I had that were so maybe casually dismissed, but not because they didn't matter, but just because somebody knew differently. Or maybe they pretended to know differently. I think we're all maybe afraid of the dark in some way or another. Metaphorically speaking, like the dark is scary. Yeah. And sitting down and being able to reparent that part of myself that feels that way, that they have to make everything okay. Nothing can go wrong, or that you have to gain some semblance of control over.

Boundaries As Armor

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah. And I'm thinking about like as well, just as I've talked a little bit about lifespan integration on the podcast, just a baby bit. But there's this idea that in lifespan, and in really any imagined, I mean in meditation, like imaginal exposures, kinds of things that we do as therapists, just maybe you do out on the world, right? Like sometimes I don't think the things that you know we do are really so they've been kind of been around a while, and then someone click like slapped a name on them and said, This is clinical and evidence-based now, you know? But I'm thinking about like how in so many of those different modalities, the whole idea is that like we have our brain cannot differentiate the imagination versus what is real. I always tell my clients, like, such as anxiety, right? Like our brain is sometimes coming. I should even say, such as OCD. Anxiety is usually in response to like a stressor that is likely like happening. You might be going out with friends and you have some stress about like your conversations that you might have to have, or maybe you have a test on Friday and you're a little anxious because you haven't studied, you know, as you should. It's like a life stressor that's like likely, right? OCD is more of a room. On things that are like very unlikely to happen. Anyway, back to what you were discussing, which is like imagining yourself with your little child self. I kind of invite listeners to just like take a minute, like wherever you are. Maybe you're not, maybe you're driving, so you like can't close your eyes. But like I want you to just take a second and really slow down for a minute and kind of imagine little you in your mind. Just kind of bring up that picture of that little child, right? Maybe that little child was really scared and was expressing that fear. And I think as adults, it's just hard for us to sometimes meet children where they're at because we're so far removed from that experience of being a child. We forget how scary and how big the world feels, or how big like a child's room feels in the dark to a child, right? But if you just imagine little you for a moment, like imagine you just as you are today, kind of coming to younger you and comforting little you. And like, what is that? What does that feel like? So I'm like, I don't know, maybe you like pause this for a second and really like let your imagination kind of go there with this visual of like you as you are just grown up.

SPEAKER_04 32:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Like being there, letting the emotions be there with little you and what that kind of feels like, and reflecting on like like what need are you meeting for that little child, and how does that in turn impact how you feel as an adult?

SPEAKER_04 32:29

I love that. And I think too, if you have the space and the time to meet little you, like notice how they show up, notice what age they are, and maybe what they're wearing, or maybe how they hold themselves. All of that is information as to you and something to work with.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Yeah. It's important to recognize that like the little child in us still exists. Like that little child is still very much within us today, still very activated by the world and by relationships, right? I once read in a book, I think it's that sometimes therapy is awkward book. Have you ever read that one?

SPEAKER_04 33:11

I haven't.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Oh my gosh, you need to read it. Okay. She talks about clients that maybe you kind of struggle with as a clinician, or they're activating something in you. She says, I always just envision them as the child on my couch. I just got chills. Yeah. Anytime there's something coming up in a session where you're just like, oh, okay. Like to picture them as the very wounded child, and that is who's sitting on your couch.

Reflection Prompts And Closing

SPEAKER_04 33:37

Damn. I think again, going back to talking about childhood fears, I think those fears become internalized. Like, right, as children, the fears lie externally. The fear lies what's under the bed or what's in the closet, or what is that shape in the dark that looks like a scary monster, right? Like they're all external fears for the most part. And I think those fears become internalized. Yes. And those fears become fear of maybe ourselves, maybe other people, maybe a lack of control. And I think that's where this card comes back to is just the strength that maybe we needed, right? The very compassionate strength that we needed as a child, afraid of the dark, right? One that's validating and not one that's very dismissive and makes you feel alone.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

And one that's desperate for a feeling of control.

SPEAKER_04 34:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Right? Like, and really recognizing that as an adult, regardless of what you're still healing from, as adults, you can give something back to that little child. It doesn't matter if you have trauma. We all have trauma, right? We all have trauma, we all have a traumatic experience. I always tell people don't compare your trauma and then write off your trauma. Everyone's healing from something, but really recognizing, regardless, as an adult, you have something that childhood you did not have, and that's agency. Right? So, like you have agency, you have autonomy, and how can you give that back to younger you? You can do that.

SPEAKER_04 35:17

I think even with the active imagination exercise of visiting little you, you can make that, you don't have to just do that once. You can do that once a week, you can do that once a month, however often you feel like you need to. And each time it could be different. Each time they could show up differently. And depending on how much space that you give them to show up, maybe they tell you verbally or intuitively or instinctually what they need. And then you can go about the week, the day, the month, whatever, giving that to them and then check in with them again and see what difference it made. And maybe if they need something different, then you can work on that next. And I think that's incredibly powerful and something you know that we have the ability to give ourselves that is transforming and healing. I don't think we give active imagination enough credit.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

We don't. And I can say, as a therapist who's been doing this kind of work with clients and doing this kind of work myself with my own therapist who does that same exact modality, like the child does show up differently, right? We don't just do this one time. And it's beautiful every time that we do it to see what is unearthed and what maybe developmental need wasn't met, that we as an adult now can kind of visualize ourselves going back and like making that connection. Yeah. I've even taken a break from therapy for a couple months, but I'm starting back up this week because I'm like, there's some things that are getting activated that I'd like to go work on. Right. So it's like it's a lifelong process. There's no end date to healing, right? Like as life goes on, our wounds get activated in different relationships, in different phases of life. And there's nothing wrong with that. That is okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

There's nothing that anyone can give to us to give us the certainty that that's not gonna happen. We're not gonna get activated again. We're not gonna do some healing, and maybe we're gonna be feeling really good. And then something else gets activated, and maybe we're feeling bad or sad or we're feeling grief or angry. Those emotions have a right to be there. We don't have to keep them at a distance based out of fear.

unknown 37:44

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:45

I love the like perception of your wound, like of having a relationship to your wound. Like not only do relationships to one another change, but our relationships to our wounds or our trauma changes. And it is very much impacted by circumstances or events or relationships with other people. And that's why it can, you know, once we feel like we've done some healing can reopen again and feel like it's a bleeding, gaping wound once again. But I think the more that we come back to it, we're healing it in a different in a different aspect or from a different perspective. And it's something that you will have to continue to do, right? Because the work is never done. It's maintaining a constant relationship to yourself as you continue to show up in a world where everything is circumstantial. And just because some circumstances are triggering doesn't necessarily mean we should avoid them. It just means that we have some work to do. And the empowering part about that is that it's up to us to do that and choose maybe it's not the right time, but maybe that's why it's coming up. It requires some attention.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

And even if it's not the right time, even if you're identifying I can't deal with that right now. You're still doing a good job. You're still surviving, you're still doing what needs to get done, right? Like you're still here. So, like, you get to decide.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

And it's not going anywhere. I mean, we've talked about that too in relationship to some of these cards, is that it's not like we're gonna get to the emperor and he's gonna say, Where have you been this whole time? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

He's just gonna be there in his stone, he's not moving, he's not going anywhere. Oh, I just wanted to throw this in here because we didn't even get to this. When I set boundaries, I feel strong, 11% of you guilty, 44%, and 44% feel torn. And I think like that your call out, right? Like the armor, like the armor is representative of the boundaries, and boundaries are necessary, and so many of us struggle with setting them because it means that we're putting ourselves first, and I think especially as women where we're taught to take care of everybody else's needs before our own, that's really hard to do. Right. And I think that like question also speaks to some of our instinctual fear when we look at this card, because he embodies, you know, maybe in its more like authoritarian sense, he embodies that like an authoritative, authoritarian figure. But when we can really spend some time with this card, it can embody some softness. But also maybe our apprehension is because this is the figure of I'm gonna set boundaries. That's what he's that is what this card resembles. And if most of us feel a little torn about setting a boundary or we just feel guilty, we are gonna have that reaction to the card that resembles I'm gonna set boundaries anyway. Yeah. You get to protect yourself and you get to set boundaries that are necessary.

SPEAKER_04 41:11

Yes. And that's hard to do if you never had somebody to model that for you.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:15

That is one of the things that I think I mentioned to you before we started recording was that I am grateful for the men in my life who have exhibited strength out of a source of compassion and not fear. And I know that they have their own experiences with that as men and trying to access this very small river of empathy and intuitive wisdom. And that is an experience I can't necessarily speak to myself, right? But I can I can translate the interactions that I've had with those in my life who do.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

I think just a reflection question today. I like these kind of in combo with one another is thinking about where do you need more structure and where could you surrender just a little bit more?

SPEAKER_04 42:02

Oof. I love that one.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:05

I have a complimentary question to that one. What structures in your life create a sense of safety and which ones create pressure? And can you identify what a healthy masculine energy looks like for you?

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Okay. I think that wraps up the Emperor today. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget, if you enjoyed this episode, to give us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify Podcasts or wherever it is that you're listening. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram because we are going to be posting like poll questions. Try to before we record.

SPEAKER_04 42:42

And then Yes, we also have created a Google Forum, which you can find as a link in our Instagram bio. And we would just really love to hear your feedback, your thoughts, your ideas. It's really meaningful to us. We enjoy getting together and talking about all of the wonderful things that we've heard over the week or every two weeks that we get together. And we just really value your input and we want to create this community. Again, we hope to create in-person events in the new year, and we want to really be intentional about the community that we're creating. We also want to share that we have a special episode coming on Monday, October 27th. So stay tuned for that. And we're so excited about this special bonus episode. We hope that you enjoy it as much as we did recording it. Thanks for listening.