Heart on the Table
Heart on the Table is a podcast by Bri Leavitt, LCSW and Myranda Peterson, LCSW — two trauma therapists, friends, and moms who know the messy, beautiful work of healing. Together, we explore what it means to grow, repair, and show up fully in life and motherhood, weaving our expertise in trauma therapy, attachment, and self-discovery with intuitive tools like tarot and oracle cards. Expect honest, unfiltered conversations about healing past wounds, rewriting old stories, and finding magic in the process. Whether you’re navigating motherhood, trauma recovery, or simply searching for deeper connection with yourself, this space is for you. New episodes release every other Monday — subscribe and join us as we put it all on the table.
Heart on the Table
Embracing Life’s Duality in the Chariot's Journey
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Embracing Life’s Duality in the Chariot's Journey
Welcome back to 'Heart on the Table!' In today's episode, we dive into the seventh tarot card, 'The Chariot.' We're grateful for all your comments and feedback—it helps us shape our discussions. We also share results from some story polls we posted last week. Join us as we explore what this card represents: duality, balance, and the journey from inner work to outward action. We compare 'The Chariot' to previous cards, discuss the importance of values in guiding our actions, and touch on the idea of moving from 'I have to' to 'I choose to.' Plus, we reflect on cultural differences in finding meaning and joy in everyday life. Stick around for poll results and a reflective question for your journey!
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Setting Up The Chariot Card
SPEAKER_00Welcome back to Heart on the Table. Today we are going to be recording the chariot, which is card number seven. Thank you again for all of your comments, feedback, just the fact that so many are enjoying this podcast is really so wonderful to hear. It helps us know what to talk about and what to share. We did post a couple of story polls this last week in preparation for today's episodes. So we will share some of those as well. And again, we just really appreciate your participation in those. And we love to see how similar and how different we all are in our responses. And, you know, just get curious about what that means. Okay. So I guess we will just start off by looking at the card and telling you what we see.
Symbols, Sphinxes, And Duality
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I guess I'll kick us off today. First thing I am noticing is we have the two things. Sphinxes? And like it is plural sphinx. Yeah. The two sphinx. There's two sphinx on the sphinxes, doesn't sound right. And one is black and one is white. And they are sitting in front of the vehicle. That I mean, that is the chariot, right? That's like what this is. Is that's the vehicle. So they're sitting in front of the chariot, and it looks like the chariot is it's like a cement block. It almost looks like the man himself in this block is like cemented to it. And while he's driving it, we don't really see how he's driving it. Like he's it almost just looks like he's at one, like he is one with the chariot. I think it's interesting because he somewhat resembles the fool a little bit, like the image of the person in this card. And from what I was reading last night, it was talking about how this is the fool midway or a little bit further into the journey of healing or learning the secrets of life, right? And so we see this more masculine image of the fool, and it does actually look similarly to what the fool looked like in the very beginning. So it's kind of interesting. I feel like one of the Sphinx has breasts and one does not. If one does, the black one, you just can't see it. You see that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's interesting. At the front of the chariot, there's like some angel wings, it looks like. And then we have what looks like to be the water behind the chariot. He kind of has some armor. He's wearing a crown. And it looks almost like there's castles in the back there. I think that's what I noticed for the most part.
SPEAKER_00When I look at the card, it feels very like, I don't know, like playing kingdom is the right word. Like it feels very much like I mean there's castles in the background, right? And there's this not throne per se, but like this, it is a chariot, but like what are the what's it called when royalty was moved around in like the vehicles that they'd like sit on their shoulders and like I don't know, but I know what you mean. I don't know if that's like necessarily what this is. This is a chariot, right? This is what this card is called, but that's what it reminds me of. It just when I look at this, I see like playing kingdom almost.
SPEAKER_01When you say playing kingdom, what do you mean?
SPEAKER_00I feel like it gives like a Robin Hood vibe to me. Maybe because I watched that Disney movie not too long ago, but it just it feels like just a formal setting. And maybe what I imagine when I think of like, I don't know, just not play pretend either, but just all of the like this person is of some importance, right? I mean, they're dressed in armor, they're dressed with some type of crown on their head, and they're in this notable vehicle of importance with their with the the landscape of a kingdom behind them. Yeah, I don't know what that's all about because I mean I don't know how that fits into the theme of this card.
SPEAKER_01Or like the plane.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Mm-hmm. I don't know that this individual in the card is pretending anything. I mean, like you said, he looks very much like a part of the vehicle.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oddly part of it. From everything I've read, that is intentional.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's I mean, and what we say when we mean that he's oddly part of it is just there's it almost like looks like the top half of him was just stuck on top of a cement block.
SPEAKER_01Like he's cemented to it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Like just the top half of him is cemented to the chariot. There's no like depth, like you can't tell that you know, his legs just go behind anything. It's just like that's it stops right there, and that is like the two R1. It's really strange. I noticed that he's holding a like blue staff, almost like a candle, but like a blue staff in his right hand, which almost blends into the whole like blue curtain, blue armor background. Let me see. Oh yeah. Like it was almost I almost missed it, I feel like. And now that I say that too, like his shoulder armor looks like I mean, there's two crescent moons, and it almost looks like there's a face on either shoulder. Did you see that?
One With The Chariot: Mind Over Reins
SPEAKER_01You know what's interesting in looking at the cards as we're coming a little bit further each time, too, is that there's little elements of each card that came before in each card that continues on. And particularly in this card, and what I was reading about that is that it is because like I was saying, like this is the fool, kind of a little bit into the journey with all of the things he's learned thus far, trying to like channel some of that. Okay. So like the crescent moons are the high priestess, yeah, and the staff is the magician. And I feel like there was even some things that I read about, like this thing is, but I can't figure out the words.
SPEAKER_00I think's again represent like duality, and I think we've seen that multiple times in the last several cards, like even with the high priestess or with the serpent.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're actually right. That is what it resembles is the duality. And we say duality over and over and over again as we continue to go through each card, which I think is really interesting because I think that's something that I see so many people struggle with is duality, which I think is why it's like repeated over and over again. Like duality, duality, duality in all of the cards.
SPEAKER_00Agreed. Um even like the angels' wings. I mean, we saw that in the last card. In the lovers. This one kind of gives me like the Hermes staff kind of feel. Have you seen that?
SPEAKER_01Mm-mm.
SPEAKER_00The Hermes staff, it's often like a symbol in medicine.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've talked about this. Yes. It's like the when you think of like a nurse, like healthcare, yes. Remember if we talked about this on the podcast, or if you told me about this before.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I don't know that we've talked about it on the podcast, but we definitely can today. Yeah. See how it fits in. Yeah, the Hermes staff is just the the staff of healing with like the two serpents that wind up it with the wings out the top. I'm noticing that like the shield, there's a shield instead of a staff. And it looks like a spinner top, like one of those things you'd play with when you were, you know, six or seven years old, spin it on the floor and watch it balance until it eventually toppled over, which is just funny to think about. Like, I don't know, then when the last time was that I thought of a toy like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I almost wonder, and the way that I interpret that, and I do feel like when I was reading last night that it was saying, I if I'm recalling correctly what I read, that that is supposed to be a spinner top kind of like idea, and it's supposed to represent balance. I could be making that up, but it feels right. Yeah, no, I definitely think that intuitively is right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. The other part of my like, I guess, reference to a spinner top was um, have you ever seen Inception?
SPEAKER_01I have seen that, but I am so bad at movie recollection. Yeah. I tell all my clients because they'll be like, You've seen XYZ movie. And I'm like, Yeah, that's just not there. Are very few and far between movies that stick to my brain. I don't know if it's maybe because I have ADHD. I just cannot, for the love of God, recall. Yeah. I do not have recall.
SPEAKER_00No, that's okay. I'm the same way with a lot of things. I feel like mostly details. Yeah. I'm so bad with names. But anyways, Inception is fascinating. I think I've only seen it once, but it was fascinating, like about the dream world, and that was how one of the characters would tell if they were in a dream or not, as they would spin the top if it kept spinning. I mean, because eventually, just naturally, I mean, the top runs out of momentum and it falls over. But in the dream world, it never stopped spinning. And that was how they could tell that they were in a dream. So I think the theme of it representing balance, and also, I mean, yes, it is a balancing toy, right? Like a balancing game. And just due to like the natural laws of things, like it is supposed to topple over.
Balance, The Spinner Top, And Action
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I really like your recognizing that and calling that out. Because that is life, right? Like we can have and nothing is linear. Nothing is supposed to be the same. We're not supposed to feel the same for the entirety of our lives. Like things topple over. And how do we how do we kind of collect ourselves and gather, like gather back up and recognize that we have the choice to continue moving forward with everything that we've learned, right? And I think that like with this card, that's kind of what this is about. Like we're taking everything that we've learned thus far and channeling all of that to actually make the choice and take action to move forward. I was seeing something last night that was talking about how the lover's card is really about, like the ability to make choice. And this card is making like that in action, right? Because like we're actually seeing him kind of with all of the information that he's taken so far. And one of the interesting things that I notice on the card that it was talked about in some of the reading that I did is the lack of reins. There's no reins that he's holding on to to guide this chariot, right? Like this, I think the Sphinx are driving the chariot. Okay. Like they're supposed to be the horse, is yeah. They're like the what they represent, I think, right? But there's no reins. So it and the way that he's like cemented into it, it talks about how he's driving it with his own mental clarity that he's gained so far versus anything in like the physical, like reins. He's channeling it with his own, yeah, just clarity and alignment and everything that he's learned are and he's really propelling that into action. I love that. Which I like, I just think it propelling into action is really difficult, especially if we I'm just thinking about like how we talk about how the tarot, there's all these things to learn as we're going through them all, right? But how sometimes we it takes many, many lessons in our life to learn whatever lesson it is that life is trying to teach us, right? Whatever in like the tarot and the cards representing those lessons. So sometimes before we're actually taking action, we're kind of going back again and again and again before we land here with all of the tools to be able to then actually like be on this chariot and be attached to this symbolic representation of movement and then take action. But like people get hung up on that. And like sometimes I very much hold and recognize that it is, you know, as a therapist, I know it's difficult to sometimes take the action that we want to and take the action that we oftentimes need to, right? Like we can identify what action it is that needs to be taken. And I say this even as a therapy client, right? I mean, I'll tell you, I'm not sitting in my therapy sessions just like, oh yes, that is indeed what I need to do, and going out and doing it right away. I am no better than any client that, like, as I talk about, you know, myself as a therapist, I am to a therapy client. I am doing the same things by like I'm talking over and over again about the same things in my own therapy sessions. Just like how taking action is hard and difficult, right? But at some point, if we want change, like we have to identify what the action is that we want to be taking and like take it, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think going back to what we've talked before about just the therapist doesn't hold the answers, right? We don't have all the answers. The client themselves have the answers. I think that even the therapist doesn't hold all the answers, but I think sometimes the therapist can maybe see a little bit clearer, you know, like objectively. Objectively, right. The individual themselves, their maybe their perception or their judgment is so clouded with what they're going through that they can't see the path. And that's what I mean, therapist again is what the function of the therapist is supposed to do is just to hold that guiding light. Like, not to say, like, I know where this path leads, but like I can I can see it's right there, right? I can see the way forward, it's right in front of you. All you have to do is take the first step. I think sometimes, at least in my experience as a therapy client, right? Like there were times in my therapy journey where my therapist was like, Finally. Oh my gosh, yeah. Like we got here. Like they got the whole time. Yeah. But that's not to mean that they don't that they have all the answers, right? But that they could see clearly what we could not because we were experiencing it again objectively.
Choice Versus Arrival Fallacy
SPEAKER_01When we're in it, when we're experiencing it, it's very hard to see the way forward. You know, it's hard to take action, especially to take action like this card and so many of the cards in the tarot have that element of duality, which I just think is important to pause and just speak about for a second. It's hard to propel ourselves forward or take any action when we are not willing to accept that it could go many different ways. I don't even know, you know, on this card, we just see what's behind him. We don't necessarily see what's in front of him. And I think like that is life, right? Like we don't, we don't know what's in front of us. I mean, I hate saying this because I have anxiety, but it's like all we have is what's behind us and the choice that we like and choice, right? About how we move forward. But because of my own anxiety, I I hate saying this, but it is true. Like, I could leave recording this podcast and I could get in a car accident on the way home. And like I could die. I hate I know that sounds morbid, but it's like all we have is the present moment, truly. And I think people get so hung up on, well, what if, you know, like what if this doesn't happen? Or there was an article I read over the week on psychology today, and it was talking about the arrival fallacy, which is the idea of like, oh, well, when I get to X point in my life, then things will be different. And it was talking about like, well, when I graduate college and I get my job, or when I finally get married, or when, when, when, when, when, when. And it talks about when we're so hung up in the future and future thinking and the lens of it all that we're just missing the opportunity to be grateful for what we have right now and also everything that like propelled us to where we are right now in the past, you know, and I think like there's there are cards in the tarot where we see people looking out, right? Like we see what's ahead of them, but in this card we do not. And I think that this card resembling like taking action and making choice, and the fact that we don't see where that leads is very symbolic. Because like we just we can't have certainty every time we make a choice. We just can't, like, life is uncertain, and we're gonna make choices, and sometimes they're not gonna work out, and sometimes they are, and that is what duality is. Either way, we're gonna get through it, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. This is reminding me of my first experience with acceptance and commitment therapy in action, right? Like as a student intern therapist in grad school, I use ACT as one of my modalities. But one of the I don't know if you call a lesson or like a teaching in ACT or like the focus of one of the set the sessions, act is a very like values-based modality, right? And I remember reading in one of the sessions about like you can't, if you imagine you living your life as you're driving your car, you can't drive your car looking through your rear view min mirror. Right? Or you will crash. Like you can't live in the present moment according to the past like you have. You can glance at it every once in a while, but to really stay grounded in the present and being mindful of what your values are, your choices are what matters to you again, like what those are. You again with the arrival, the destination arrival, you get there, and then what like you accomplish this thing that you had in mind, and then what's the next thing? And really, when it comes down to it, is you only get this moment here right now. And I can like empathize with a lot of those same thoughts, like I think those intrusive thoughts that come up, like what if I die on my way home? Then what happens? And I guess what it comes down to when I think those thoughts in my head is how will I want to be remembered by those I'm closest to, and like living every moment according to that. Yeah. Which is hard, it takes a lot of effort and a lot of patience, and a lot of again, like the practicing the gratitude. But I think that's the magic and the mundane that we have talked about before, too. Yeah.
ACT, Values, And Present-Moment Living
SPEAKER_01It's just thinking more about like the arrival, right? And like thinking how so many of us can get caught up in like where we're going and kind of even assigning our value to that, right? Like I think it was talking in one of the articles about like a capitalist world really pushes us to be thinking constantly about like, well, when, right? When you have a good job, when you graduate college, when you do this, like, and it we kind of attach like our self-worth to those things. And how something important it was talking about too was that there's more of a dopamine rush in the chase for those things, like while you're in school or while you are dating, like while you're trying to choose or select than there ever is when we get there. I actually, one of my clients said something in partner with this that I thought was quite profound. They said, it's like when you're planning a vacation. And the planning is so fun. Like you can spend so long online planning your excursions and planning what you're gonna see and what you're gonna do. And then you're sitting in the airport with all this anticipation, and then you kind of get on your trip and you're like, oh, I mean, it's fun, but like part of the thrill of it is planning. I think sometimes we'll be sitting on vacation, like thinking about, or like we're getting close to the end, thinking about like, well, when's the next vacation? You know, and it's like we're missing the opportunity to just be in the present and just soak, like just to just soak up what's going on now. And also to recognize that like we're worthy just as we are right now, right? Like we don't need to be in the next thing. I've actually felt that creep up on me over the past. I was telling you yesterday how I was looking at like bigger offices. I've been in my private practice for almost two years now, and I feel like it's going well. You know, but now I'm kind of like, oh, but like what comes next? And I'm looking at like, oh, do I want to run like a group practice? Do I want to like hire an intern? Do I wanna, what comes next? What comes next? You know, when it's just like nothing has to come next. I don't need to like be chasing anything. I can just be in the now where like this practice is enough to, you know, it's enough financially. It's enough for me to have a pretty flexible schedule to be with my family. Like, why is that creeping up on me where it's like, but what comes next? You know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I get that. I mean, even I mean, we were talking yesterday too about planners for 20 hours. Yeah. Just the fact, like, like these days I live by my planner or my calendar in my phone because I cannot hold all of the to-do in my mind alone. Like it just is not possible. Yeah. These days. So like it it has to live somewhere. And it's always like it's interesting to see just how fast like our week goes by from week to week, depending on what we have going on, right? Like this last week we had something Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And by Thursday, I was like, oh wow, tomorrow's Friday. Like, that's amazing. And this week went by so fast in comparison to like the week before. And it's just because we always have something to do. And so we live for the weekend, right? When we get to be home and when we get to spend time together and we don't have to go to work. And our weekends are also full, right? Like we're cramming in fun activities to do for the season, like going to see boo lights or going to the aquarium lights is what we want to do next. And like visiting people and chores or even going to the grocery store. I don't know that we've made like a substantial grocery list in like a month. Like it's always just been like, okay, we need to go to the store and we don't really have a list made up, so let's just roll with it. Browse. Get what we need. But we also don't want to spend more time there than we need to.
SPEAKER_01Or money. Whenever you go without an aim, it's so aimless without a list. Like it's just, and if you're hungry, oh yes. I'm thinking about like a hungry Costco run, and I'm like, oh, that looks good by so much random shit.
SPEAKER_00Like four hours later.
SPEAKER_01But pickle chips that weren't good.
Consumerism, Culture, And Slowing Down
SPEAKER_00Like, yeah. And then there are times too where we're just like, we don't have anything planned. Let's just eat out all week, which is also not fun. But where I was going with that is just that we always have something to do. My husband and I will send each other videos back and forth throughout the week. And I think he sent me one this last week about the video was of an individual in Italy, and they were just talking about how I mean, I think subjectively, maybe objectively, there is some truth to this video. I mean, it obviously resonated with me if I'm talking about it here, but like the video was talking about how Americans have to always have something planned to look forward to, you know? Like going to lights, for example, on the weekends, like making it an experience. And they were just talking about how, at least in their experience where they live, like people are happy just taking a walk. Like taking a walk is the experience. You don't have to spend money, you don't have to set up a whole plan or agenda or evening or this is what we're doing. It's just that it is so much easier for them to like enjoy simple things or the mundane things, right? And that is, I was thinking about that a lot, and that is true. I think when we can really sit with that or like pause with that, we've been including our two-year-old in some of our tasks, like just our daily tasks, which we hadn't been making an effort to do so. Like it's not something that I think about all the time. Like it's just easier for me to do the thing. Maybe, maybe not. I mean, he could go behind me and like pull all my shirts off the hangers, for example, but like including him in the chores that we're doing or the you know, little mundane tasks, like it's a teaching moment for him and also it slows us down a lot. And it I think again coming back to the being present in the moment and not rushing to do things. I mean, this chariot doesn't look like he's going anywhere, right? I mean, the sphinxes are they appear to be laying down or sitting, but there's obvious some intention behind just being still done still. Yeah, grounded. Yeah. I mean, there's balance and duality written all over this card. And I think when we pause from seeking, when we pause from searching to realize that maybe we have what we need already.
SPEAKER_01And maybe that is what movement is. Is it's maybe it's really more about like the more that we can just stay in the present, we are moving forward because time is passing, right? So like why do we have to be like chasing all the time to your just kind of comment or discussion about the differences in like cultures? I saw something. This is just making me think of consumerism. And have you seen all the hubbub about the Starbucks bear cup? Oh my gosh. Okay, so on TikTok, there was this. So Starbucks released this bear cup. Okay, it's super cute. It's like a bear glass mug. Is it practical? Not at all. It's not practical, it doesn't fit in a cup holder. It would be very hard to clean because it's like crevice, right? Like it's a bear. And for a brief second, I found myself too like, I need that bear cup. I went to Starbucks because they had their new Christmas menu out. And I was like, I want to try their new gingerbread chai. And I thought for a second to ask them about the bear cup, but I didn't. I was like, I don't need another mug. I'm always trying to slow down on my consumerism habits. One of those is I don't need another fucking mug. So anyway, there was somebody in one of the TikTok comments and they were like, Do Americans just love standing in lines? And I'm like, that is just so it's such a observation. Yeah. Because I feel like as Americans with capitalism inundated to everything that we do, we are standing in lines for stupid shit all the time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, that is also symbolic of chasing the thing, right? Like, oh, there's this new thing, we have to have it because that's gonna add meaning to our life if we have this new thing and we're gonna go stand in line, we're gonna go wait with everyone else, which in some sense contributes to a feeling of like community. It's not community, but I'm like, is standing in lines the only community that we get when we're in capitalism? Like when we're this deep into capitalism, we're all like, let's go stand in line and wait for the next new thing, and then we're gonna talk to the people around us. And anyway, but it just made me you talking about like the differences in culture made me think of that too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. All right, like reflection. Yeah, I think it's pertinent to at the time of year. Yep.
SPEAKER_01And like so stupid. Like people were fighting with baristas over these cups. I'm just like, these are human beings. Like they were literally I was watching one TikTok story where she was like fearful for her life because and people were like cussing at her because they were like, fuck you guys for not like stalking this cup. And she's like, ma'am, I am just an employee, like trying to make ends meet over a bear cup. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What is wrong with us? That reminds me of a different video that I saw. It was like a social experiment. I can't remember when it happened, but this woman or where it happened, but this woman, like again, it was a social experiment. She stood in a public place and like laid out all of these different materials. Some of them were like feathers, some of them, I think one of them was like a like weapons of some kind. All of these different materials, and she put she was silent. She put up a sign and said something like, feel free to use any of these things on me. Oh, I think that's a good one. And she was just out of this. She was just quiet. Like she was a statue, she didn't move, she didn't talk, she didn't expression like just blank. And she stood there for hours. And like the outcome of the social experiment was that people initially were like very kind and gentle, and people would like come up and give her a kiss on her cheek or hug her, or just be very kind, and towards like as it went on. People got more like violent and would like she ended up with like cuts and scrapes and like I think at some point like people were very like posturing towards her and she just sat there and endured it. And after the time, I think it was something like four hours she stood there. And after the time was up and she moved again and like became animated, the individuals who were aggressive towards her kind of like shied away in shame or in like what have I just done? And I think that goes to speak to like we just the importance of recognizing the human and the other person, like in how we treat people. But yeah, like there's no excuse or no reason why we should be treating people the way that they're treated sometimes, you know, with the just the the disrespect. Like no one deserves that. And I think it comes back again like to the social experiment, like who are we when no one is watching, or who are we when everyone is watching? Mm-hmm. And like I can't imagine that acting that way feels very good either.
Values In Practice And Everyday Routines
SPEAKER_01Well, it was reminding me of you talking about act therapy and how the big principle with act is taking inventory of what your values are. And it's like I feel like when we are in a collective like social experience that if we see it's like the bystander effect almost, right? Where bystander effect is like you might be in a really crowded park and you see someone being attacked, and everyone just continues walking by because they're like, oh, well, I'm sure somebody else will report it, right? Or like you're in your near your neighborhood and you hear screaming and you're like, somebody else will report it. I'm not gonna call. So it's like we don't take action because we just assume someone else will. But the collective experience of like, oh, well, they did it, right? They they cut her, someone, or like they were mean to the Starbucks person. So like I'm gonna be mean too. Like, who cares? Right? Everyone's being mean or everyone's being violent. But we have to also come back to ourselves, which I think is like the chariot is lone, right? Like it's just him. We have to come back to ourselves and be asking ourselves, what are my values? Before we're just like jumping into the collective social experience of being a trash human being, you know? Is that really what your values are? To be speaking to a Starbucks barista who's probably making barely enough to afford their rent in such a shitty way? Is that really what one's values are with this like social experiment that you're talking about to be going up to a human being and cutting her or posturing toward her? Yeah. It's just an like I just think that speaks to the importance of really learning ourselves and knowing who we are so that we don't find ourselves in these experiences that are crass and like completely outside of one's values.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I mean, I think too, just with Nateri I have here right in my notes, I was just taking a peek, is moving forward without losing that inner equilibrium. Yeah. Like making a choice without losing who you are, what your values are. And like again, I think we've talked about like those need to be constantly re-evaluated all the time. Like my values when I was early 20s are not the same values I have. They're supposed to change. Right. And I don't know that we do like the focus is always out there externally, right? Like coming back to the planning, what's next. Like it's always external, and I don't know that we have enough internal reflection to be able to even begin to understand how we've changed. And so maybe we don't recognize who we are when we look in the mirror. Maybe we really don't know who we are. Yeah. But being in constant evaluation of that, I did want to touch on the polls that we took.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes. I wanted to add one more thing before you go into the polls because it kind of goes along with what you were just talking about. But I put in my notes that the chariot is moving from I have to to I choose to, right? And I think like speaking of these collective like social experiment things, like you don't have to do what everyone is doing if it doesn't feel like the right and aligned choice for yourself. What is most important and what contributes in a positive way to inner equilibrium is living in alignment to you, not what everyone else is doing, or not the choices that we feel we have to be doing if they don't actually align with our choice and our values.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think it's a good thing to be a black sheep. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01To know who you are, to know apart from everyone. And what you've been told, what the expectations are of you. Like you have to land in adulthood with setting your own expectations of you that are aligned with your values.
SPEAKER_00Or else we're never gonna feel like we have alignment. And I think this is the first card, maybe two thus far, that shows movement, right? Since the fool. Or am I remembering that wrong? Or movement. Yeah, quote unquote. Like movement. This cherry isn't going anywhere that it appears to be implies. It implies movement. And I think one more note that I have here is just that after doing all of the inner work, all the previous cards that we've talked about have been about inner work. This is the first card I think that shows like coming out of that inner work and into the external, like putting all of the inner work that we've done into action to our outside world.
SPEAKER_01It's almost, you know, how you were talking about like I don't know what all this kind of resembles in the back, like all the castles and stuff. It makes me think like this is the first time. Like, what if it's that all of these buildings and stuff contain some of the first secrets? Right? Like the fool maybe leapt into all of this. Where like what here's where the magician is, here's where the hiring is, here's where the high priestess and the emperor, like they're all in this. And this is the first time that now he's like venturing out, actually away from everything that he's just learned, right? Like he's he's leaving with all of those tools.
Poll Results: Control, Direction, And Balance
SPEAKER_00I like that. I'm noticing that we didn't actually like look up any of the meanings. We just kind of went with what we Which I kind of liked. Yeah. I mean, I think it again builds from the last card, right? Like a lot of these symbols are in other cards. Had more of like a natural conversation about it. Yeah. Okay. Into our polls. Yes. I think we had about 14 to 16 responses, I think, roughly on average. The question was do you ever feel like you're moving forward but not sure who's driving? 29% said yes all the time.
SPEAKER_01Moving forward, but not sure who's driving.
SPEAKER_0057% said sometimes, but I'm learning to steer. And 14% said no, I'm always in control. So I think that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_01I think the more that we do our own work, the more we know how to steer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. The next one was how connected do you feel to your sense of direction right now? 8% said lost, 77% said finding my way, and 15% said aligned.
SPEAKER_01Makes me think like the message for those of you who feel lost today is like I tell all of my clients when we do like the values exercise, I'm like, listen, there I tell everyone, I'm like, there are some therapy exercises that feel quite cheesy. And I do think that a values exercise where I give you a list of values is one of those. I'm like, listen. This doesn't feel deep. This doesn't feel I'm like, yes, I'm gonna hand you this paper and you're gonna sit with this for a second. But I tell everyone with even the cheesier therapy exercises, where else are you doing this? When was the last time that you sat down and took inventory of your values? And every single client is like, never, or the last time that we did this. And I think I do that when clients are feeling lost because I'm like, how we're feeling lost when we're not acting in alignment with us and who we are and what's important to us. So getting more clear about that means that we'll be able to ask ourselves each day, how can I get in touch with this value? And from that, I think we begin to live in more alignment and we begin to feel like we are the ones who are more in control of our own life and our own choices.
SPEAKER_00I just had a memory of doing those exercises in school. So and then class, I did you were there. We did our classes online because of COVID. Yep. I don't know if we were in the same classes, but I know that that was your experience.
SPEAKER_01We did have one or two, I think. I don't remember which classes they were. I do remember seeing your little zoom box on a few of my classes. Yes.
SPEAKER_00I just had a memory pop up of doing those in class. I'd be sitting at the table listening to my laptop to the lecture and like doing these in my notebook on my side or on the side or whatever. And again, you're right, like they do feel cheesy, but I think with everything that we've said, like even the cliche sayings, like they're there for a reason. Exactly. And it may feel cheesy. And when was the last time that we've ever done it? And I even learned things about myself when I did it in class. Like you do.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I do too. And I I think that might be some of my own insecurity where I'm like, listen, I know this is cheesy. Because I very much like doing deep work with clients. So when I we come back to like I'm not a worksheet therapist, so whenever I t like break one out, I'm like, listen, bear with me. Okay, this we're gonna do this together. They are valuable. Yeah. But like I just do it sometimes when I'm I wouldn't say I have a practice of sitting down and figuring out what my values are. But whenever I go to print them out for clients, like before session, I'll kind of sit with it for a second and be like, I haven't thought about this in a little bit. And I should stop and pause for a second and think about it.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Just going back to the basics. Yep. Which I think is again like symbolic of this entire tarot journey, tarot arc. Yeah. The next question was what helps you reconnect when you've lost your sense, purpose, or momentum? Sense of purpose or momentum, sorry. We had three responses. One was remembering my why, one was still trying to figure that one out. And the last one was routine that centers me in self-care.
SPEAKER_01And again, like we get that routine from knowing what matters to us and also what our values are. So we know what we're pouring into.
SPEAKER_00And again, like that changes, right? Like my self-care routine these days is not my self-care routine from way back when. Yep. And the next one is do you feel like control helps you feel safe or does it leave you exhausted? I really liked this question. 57% said it helps me feel safe, and 43% says it wears me out. Which I think is a good split.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which is just interesting. And I think that when it wears us out, we have to ask ourselves like, where are we being too rigid? We're leaning into like the very, yeah, just a rigid version of control. Right? We're not allowing for flexibility and we're just rigid.
SPEAKER_00I really like that one. Yeah. And the last one was how's your balance between drive and rest lately? 54% all said all gas, 46% said finding balance, and nobody said full rest mode, which I think was interesting. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01And I feel like just ties right back into what we were talking about, you know, like the arrival fallacy, standing in lines, like burning ourselves out, trying to find the next big thing. Not really, or as Americans, everything having to be like an extravagant experience versus just like relaxing and enjoying presence. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Wow. Again, these are just reflection questions that you as listeners have participated in, which we are incredibly grateful for. And I think it just allows a space for others to realize that they're not alone in some of those feelings, too.
SPEAKER_01Do we want to wrap up with a reflection question from today's episode?
SPEAKER_00Yes. What was yours? I like this one. I think it goes along really well with like the theme that we've just been talking about is what helps me stay centered while in motion? Mm-hmm. Again, going back to the spinner top.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, uh it's inevitable that it's going to topple over, but like, can you come back to that center? And what is that?
SPEAKER_01The one that I have says, what does aligned movement look like for you right now? And what would it mean to trust that you can steer your life without forcing it? That's a good one. Like steering life without forcing it, trusting in the present.
Reflection Prompts And Closing Plans
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think again, we've talked about wanting to know where we're gonna end up and being afraid to take that first step because we don't know what the end's gonna look like, but just taking the first step anyways and trusting that we'll end up where we need to be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Even if it doesn't look like how we imagined.
SPEAKER_01All right. Thanks so much for tuning in with us today on this episode on the chariot. We're kind of excited because we were thinking we're gonna start mixing up our episodes a little bit more. So we're still gonna continue with our in-depth tarot episodes, but we're also gonna start sprinkling in some of the things that are just coming up for us organically as we've been exploring tarot themes. So we're probably gonna start releasing every other week like a tarot episode and then one of our more random topic kind of episodes that are just showing up for us. Thanks for tuning in. Also, as always, if you like what you hear, don't forget to leave us a review wherever you're listening to podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Spotify Podcasts, I think are the two places that you can really leave reviews. Um, but don't forget to leave us a review so that more people can find our little community.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And if you have any feedback, comments, questions, thoughts that you'd like to share with us, we have created a Google form for you to be able to do so. You can find that linked in our Instagram bio. And we enjoy reading those. We look forward to hearing from you if you are interested. Thank you so much for being a part of this community and for taking a seat at our table. Thank you.
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