Strength As Compassion: What The Tarot’s Eighth Card Teaches About Courage, Presence, And Growth

We explore the Strength card as a practice of compassionate courage, moving from force to relationship with our inner lion. Through myth, psychology, and simple tools, we show how presence turns fear into a guide and courage into something renewable.

• key symbols in the Strength card and what they signal
• why strength grows slowly through cycles, not single acts
• inner lion as instinct, passion, and protection seeking contact
• IFS lens on exiles, managers, and integration
• presence practices that ground the body and quiet panic
• self-compassion skills from Kristen Neff and touch cues
• graded exposure to fear, including mirror work when safe
• the initiatory threshold and crossing from avoidance to contact
• hero’s journey vs heroine’s journey and Inanna’s descent
• reparenting without abandonment or attack of the self
• equation for renewable courage: compassion, courage, slow growth, self-trust

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Transcript

Opening And Listener Poll Insights

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Welcome back to Heart on the Table. Today we are going to be talking about the strength card. And we are excited to be talking about this card today. I'm excited. Oh, before we dive in, I just wanted to talk about the Instagram polls that I posted this morning because I asked a few questions just about strength. And we did have a good amount of responses this morning, which thank you all, because I posted those very last minute before recording today. So the first question I asked was when you first hear the word strength, do you picture inner resilience or outward toughness? 73% said inner resilience, and 27% said outward toughness. When you think of change, does change happen by brute force 0%, self-compassion, 40%, and 60% of you said both. Have you heard of the initiation threshold? But I knew when I typed that wasn't quite the word that I was looking for. 20% said yes, 70% said no, and 10% said I don't know. I love that. And then I said, which feels true to you these days. 9% of you said strength built fast, and 91% said strength built slowly over time. I'm just back to that initiatory threshold. I'm excited to talk a little bit about that today. So we'll just dive into our analysis of what we see in the cards. You want to start there? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yes. So this is card number eight. I notice just the forefront of the image. Like it's a maiden. She looks to be petting or taming this lion. The lion is red, which stands out just because I don't know that I've seen a red lion. She also has an infinity sign above her head, which I know we've seen a couple of times. I think the magician had one. That's what I was thinking too. Yeah. She's wearing a white dress or gown, which probably has some significance to it. The background is pretty yellow, which I think is common for a lot of cards we've talked about. The background being yellow and what that symbolizes. I noticed there's no like running water, which I feel like has been a common theme across most of the cards we've looked at, with the exception of a few. Since this is only card number eight. But there are like card number eight. I feel like we've been recording. I can't believe we're only on card number eight. I know. This is probably like episode what 12? I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

13, it'll be 13.Feels like we've been doing this for a lot longer.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

It does. There are like there's a mountain, like one strong peak and like green landscape, but that's about it. Yeah, I'm excited to talk about like my own interpretation of the maiden and the lion. But what do you notice?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

The one thing that I noticed that you did not mention is the lion's tongue is out. It's almost as if the lion is like giving her a kiss, like a dog kiss, like licking her. And I noticed that she has a lot of like florals wrapped around her. This card reminds me a lot of the magician. Just like a different, almost a different take on it. But she's got a white robe. I think he was in a white robe, the infinity sign. Yeah, I think I don't notice much different than you already brought to our attention, other than it looks like the lion is giving her a kiss and the florals that she's wrapped in. You want to start? Yes.

Inner Lion And Compassionate Strength

SPEAKER_00 5:17

So I think I wanted to just really highlight the again from past cards, we know that red means like passion or life or like blood, and white means like clarity. And so I think that's interesting, like the pairing of the two. They're definitely separate. I think the magician was wearing white underneath red or red underneath. You're right. White underneath red, I think. One of the, yeah. But here they're very much separated. And I think that is just it speaks to just the way that the two interact with each other. I have written here in my notes that the inner lion, again, these cards are all representation of us, like of our own inner landscape or of our own inner world. We all have these qualities within us or the potential for them at least. And the inner lion in each of us is very instinctual and passionate. There's the word passionate for red, and very protective. And the inner maiden is very conscious and compassionate, and the presence that tames through understanding is the line that I have here. And I think that speaks to just the nature of this card as it being the strength card, it being two things strength with compassion, which I think is another thing that we've talked about before. Strength through fear versus strength through compassion. Yeah. And how different the two are. And this card is definitely strength through compassion. I think that maybe that's what the infinity sign has to do above her head, just the endless possibilities that could come from compassionate strength.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

But those are the two interpretations.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

And Miranda's very prepared here with her notebook. I wrote this a couple weeks ago. I love it. I'm just like Miranda looks very prepared. And I'm just like, got my phone and card in front of me, which I love. This is all thanks to you, anyways. I know you got me started on the journals and the Which shows you how my relationship to journaling and notebook, like notebooking and preparation is a revolving door.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Yeah, you don't have to be good at it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

I just thought it was cute that she's got her notebook.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

This this is new for me. Oh yes. My newest impression.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

The novelty hasn't run worn off yet. No, not yet. The things that I recall just in like some of my light research this morning, the biggest thing for me is I'm just thinking about like the way that she is petting the lion or giving, I'm thinking of my own dog. So I'm just like giving giving the lion pet. Something that I was reading this morning is just viewing the lion as a part of ourselves that we have to, like you were saying, like when you think of a lion, you think of something maybe to be, I don't know, something powerful. On another hand, I was thinking of something to be feared, right? Like if you just ran into a lion in the wild, like I'd be a little, oh shit. But in this image on the card, like it is clear that she doesn't fear the lion. She is like befriending the lion. And I think like with our own healing journey, there comes this point where like we do have to acknowledge the parts of us that maybe we have feared, right? Or the parts of ourselves that like maybe we really didn't want to acknowledge that we're there, or the parts of ourselves that are very wild. And at some point we have to acknowledge them and make peace with those parts of ourselves in order to feel strong.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

I love that. It almost brings up a theme or like an underlying theme of surrender or trusting the surrender. When I think of a lion, the only time I've ever seen a lion has been at the zoo of some kind. I've never seen one out in the wild. And when you go to see one, I have my own opinion about zoos, but they're in cages, and that's not how they're meant to be.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

They're in cages, and every time I've seen them at the zoo, there's one in particular at the Hogle Zoo that is very agitated.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

The whole, I think, maybe psychology behind that is interesting. Yeah. There's a obviously it's reality for a lot of these animals, which again is a different side of the story. And I also think maybe it's intuitively like our own relationship with our wild self.

Befriending The Parts We Fear

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Yes. Like I'm thinking of the one lion that I see. I feel like it's either it's like a particular kind of lion. I can't remember if it's with the lions or if it's something else, but it's similar. And every time I've ever been to the zoo, like pacing, like it's just pacing, and I'm thinking about the parts of ourselves that we keep in cages and how those parts become agitated. Like they're agitated and they are begging to be acknowledged and begging to be free. And the more that we fight against that, like the more agitated that they become. I'm thinking of internal family systems, which is like a popular therapeutic modality. And I'm just thinking about the lion very much being the parts of ourselves that we really want to not acknowledge or we want to ignore because maybe society frames them as like bad, or like we feel, or maybe we felt or been shamed into not feeling those parts of ourselves. But until we can acknowledge them and embrace them, they drive us, like those wild parts of ourselves. Like maybe it's anxiety, maybe it's grief, maybe it's despair, depression, loneliness. Until we really acknowledge those parts and sit with those parts and figure out how to understand where they were even born from or why they're there. If we can't give them compassion and understanding, they will continue to just take over and have that drive over us. I'm thinking about like, I said we needed to talk about how do we give those parts of ourselves compassion?

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah. I think, I mean, again, this is an ongoing journey for everyone. Like even if you come across a way that works for you, it might not work in 10, 15 years. But this is a revolving door. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Like my relationship to notebooking and journaling. Yeah. It's a cycle, like everything.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

I know. But how as far as like how, I think that really just begins with presence. And I think it means showing up and holding like a container or a space for this part of ourselves to come forward. Because how often we're spending all of our time shoving it away or burying it and making sure that it doesn't come out, right? That it doesn't get out of its cage.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

And that it stays where we want it. And that, again, only makes it angry. I'm thinking very visually of something I saw several years ago. I thought that I saved it, screenshotted it. I've looked for it many times. Maybe I didn't see it. Maybe it was a dream. I'm not pretty sure I saw it. But it was like a it was like a swipe, like a carousel of images that you would swipe through. And the first image, it was, I think it fits really well in this conversation, but it was an image of a person. I don't know how old they were. I guess it depends on how old you are at any given time of this person, and they're facing like this huge, like overshadowing monster. Like it's a shadow of some kind, and it's all black and it's scary and it looks very monstrous. It almost felt childish to me in a way. This individual, I think, was I think they were like, they weren't a child. The image of this other individual wasn't a child, it was older than a child. But anyways, there was this big shadowy monster. And as you scrolled through the images, the individual sort of like uh embraces, like hugs this shadowy image. And as you continue to swipe, the shadow shrinks and it turns into a fire, it gets a little less scary, and then it turns into a child. And it's them as a child that has become like this big scary thing because they've not taken the time to sit with it and acknowledge it. So I think how we can begin to integrate these parts of ourselves that we want to keep buried away is to really create, intentionally create space for them.

Cages, Zoos, And The Wild Self

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah. To add on to what you're saying about the big shadowy monster eventually with enough compassion turns back into the child through so many like therapeutic modalities, time and therapy, like whatever you want to call it, right? I think a lot of trauma modalities all get at the same thing where it's like we need to acknowledge the parts of us that were born out of the scary parts of our childhood, or the parts where like we maybe didn't get what we needed, or I often use the term like what the things that should have happened that didn't, those things are also trauma, and those things can also turn into like a big shadowy monster. And until we you said presence, right? Like, how do we how do we give ourselves more compassion? I think I've heard something before talk about how depression pulls us backwards and anxiety pulls us forwards. And I think a lot of the parts of ourselves, like the part that feels lonely or the part that feels scared or grief, like whatever it may be, could also be categorically like in depression or in anxiety, depression pulling us backwards and anxiety pulling us forwards. But I think something about presence is like it, it just begs us to be in the here and now. And being in the here and now allows us to, I don't know, slow down with ourselves, right? And just appreciate like what is just in front of us in this moment. And we've talked about that a lot on the podcast because I think it is, it feels like something that's so simple. Like when you say it out loud, like just be in the present, like we just need to be in the present. But it's seriously something that is just an ongoing practice forever. And I think part of that too is being in the present can feel really uncomfortable. Especially if there's so many unintegrated parts of ourselves or like trying to get our attention. Yeah, I think that's probably the hardest part about it. Yeah. Yep. When we are so fragmented or when we are so unintegrated. And like I'm thinking of a lot of compassionate practices, like there's like compassionate touch where we just hold a hand, hold your hands, or hold like a hand to the heart. But I'm thinking of Kristen Neff's book, Self-Compassion, too, where she talks about I think one of her very beginner practices of self-compassion is truly just sitting with yourself and acknowledging your emotion. Like I notice that I'm feeling sad. And noticing other people feel this way too. It's like something about noticing we're not alone in our emotion. Like other people, there's so many people in this world, absolutely other people have felt the way that we feel. And then just like offering yourself some words of compassion. I'm gonna get through this, or it's okay to feel this way.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Something is coming to mind, and I read it somewhere in the last week, but I could not tell you where I read it from. Like story of my life. I cannot remember which book it was or where I was reading it from. But I think, and I think this is very situational or circumstantial. This isn't gonna work for everybody, what I'm about to say, especially if you're struggling with image, like self-image. But I think again, going back to that compassionate touch, I think sitting in front of a mirror and just noticing things about yourself, like how you carry weight on your shoulders, or you can see tension. But I think that imagery, again, sitting in front of a mirror, like it is so much easier, I think, for a lot of people to read body language. I think that's how we interpret a lot of our relationships, even as like a young child. Yeah. Emotionally, body language is the first thing we learn, like the first language that we learn.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Through like attunement and being seen and hopefully and a lot of that too, like trauma related, like you can instantly pick up when you know someone says something in a certain tone of voice or carries themselves a certain way, like your body will just naturally pick up on those things even if you're not consciously aware of it. So I think too, just like sitting in front of a mirror and checking in and like seeing that on yourself. How do I feel in this present moment? I think too, that could be a really powerful way of witnessing because a lot of healing is done in the presence of another person, right? Yeah. Therapy-wise, there is a therapist who will witness your pain and they can't do anything. It doesn't mean that they're gonna change it or take it away from you or solve it in any way, but the fact that there is a witness to your pain is what I think is so powerful in healing. And so being able to maybe set aside some time to check in for yourself to be that witness, like you can definitely witness yourself, and I think it could be especially I think if you have a hard time grounding in the present moment, I think that could be a tool to use. Yeah, visually speaking to those cues, it's easier, I think, for our emotional mind to interpret and understand than our logical mind. Or to quiet the logical mind and shift into the emotional mind.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

I think also, too, you said this might be difficult if you struggle with self-image. And while you are right, this card is also showing us like we can't avoid the things that scare us forever. And I that's such an important part of healing and thinking too about like exposure therapy. Like the whole idea with exposure therapy is that over time we expose ourselves little by little to what we fear the most. And then we are no longer fearful and we feel more at peace, like out moving around in the world, encountering some of the things that may have at one point we would have identified as like a trigger. So we can work ourselves up to looking at ourselves in the mirror. And I think we can start looking at ourselves in the mirror is hitting on one sense, it's hitting on sight. And there, and yes, a great way to get into the present is engaging our senses. And the mirror would be engaging like the sensory of sight. But I'm thinking too, like, what other ways can we just be present with ourselves to to work ourselves up to like sitting with ourselves in front of the mirror because we don't want to avoid if the mirror right now is the lion, we don't want to avoid that forever because at some point, like, we can feel integrated with that.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah. I would agree. I don't know that it's everything we reject about ourselves, we should eventually. I want to be careful with the word should. I always say that too. And then the should comes out sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

I'm like, but does it fit here though? Right, yeah, I know.

Presence, IFS, And Integration

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Yes, I think you're right in the sense that we can't avoid those things forever. Yes. The longer that we hold it at arm's length or refuse to look at it, the angrier it gets. Yep, or the louder it gets, or the scarier it gets. So you're right, that is not something. If we are hoping to become a more whole person or an integrated person, yeah, and not want our lives to be ruled by this thing forever, or dictated, or determined, or it it it's powerful if we want to loosen our grip on that. We have to face it or come to terms with it in one way or another.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Yeah. Something I also Like to call out, or I would like to call out about this card is the fact that this is number eight and the card is strength. I'm making the connection of eight is also the infinity symbol, which is interesting. Eight is the number of mastery in tarot. It represents the moment when the work moves from external to internal. In strength, that shows up as mastering your instinct, emotion, and reactions, not by force, but by relationship. Infinity symbol floating above her head is the eight turned sideways. This points to the endless loop of growth and contraction, the long-term nature of strength, the idea that courage is renewable, not finite.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

It reinforces that strength is something you return to over an ongoing cycle, not a single act. I really like, I really like that. Cycle. There it is again. Yep, and it's something that we return to over and over. So I think that's important for recognizing that in moments where maybe we just feel weak, it doesn't mean that we're not strong. It just means that we have to find our way back to strength. And that's what I was going to say is that this whole the journey of the major arcana starting with the fool, it doesn't start with feeling strong. Strength comes at number eight. Strength comes a little bit into the journey. And I think that's so important because I think a lot of times when we start off on a journey, like a journey of change or an initiatory journey, we definitely are not feeling strong at the beginning of that. We're probably feeling pretty scared. We don't really know what's coming. But remembering that strength is something that we can return to because it is there, or we will learn along our journey how to access it.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Yes. I think that's a great segue into an issue. I was gonna say that. We're just on the same wavelength today.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Like we're like, I'm gonna tell our listeners, I think it's because we started later in the morning. We started today at 10. And the past couple of times we recorded, we were like really trying to make this an early thing. Cause I was like, let's just get it over with. Let's just so we can have our Sunday. But I'm like, I think that starting this a little bit later in the day is giving us at least me, it's giving me a lot more like brain power and like not feeling so flustered or starving or yeah, feeling good. Yeah. Okay. The initiatory threshold. So let's begin to talk about what that is. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Do you want to start? Sure. Initiatory threshold, I think, is something like you said this morning was a term really explored by Joseph Campbell.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

And I think the direction that I want to go with it is so Joseph Campbell wrote a book called The Hero's Journey, which was all about the hero hearing a call for adventure. I think it's found in a lot of classic like movie.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Everything every almost all movie plots, there is usually an identifiable hero's journey.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Lord of the Rings or Star Wars, especially. Those are the two that come to mind.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah. And the hero's journey's significance too is that Joseph Campbell really was the one to identify that like the hero's journey is a thematic thing and a relatable human experience for all of us.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

And the heroes, the thing about the hero's journey is I think it's very so this is what I want to get into a little bit, but the hero's journey is very, it's an external journey for the most part. Like the hero has a moment where they are called to take up this adventure. And they have to decide whether or not to answer that call. And when they do decide that they're going to embark on this journey is when they cross that initiatory threshold. And they go through all kinds of transformations on the way, right? They go through all sorts of trials, all sorts of challenges. They have moments when they fear themselves weak. And there are different kinds of players. I think players is the wrong word, but there are different characters in this journey. There you go, that serve different roles or different purposes. There's a guide that's wise, and then there's the villain or the monsters that you have to fight to overcome. The difference between what I wanted to talk about as the hero's journey versus the heroine's journey, which I think is very will resonate with a lot of our listeners, I think, or I'm hoping. Yeah. The heroine's journey is very internal. Like it's not necessarily an external adventure. It's a the hero's journey is about disconnection and then descent and then healing and reintegration. Which we Brie and I read a book not too long ago called Descent and Rising.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

It's like the eighth time it's been mentioned on this podcast because I feel like we mention it every time we record. It's just such a good book.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

It is good. But, anyways, that whole story is about really descent and the getting to the bottom and then the having to come back or the rising after that. And in the story, Inanna is called to basically the underworld. She has to go and visit her sister in the underworld. The sister, the part of herself that has been rejected and buried and caged in a way. And Nana has to make this descent through. I think it's seven. I think it is seven. That's right, seven chakras, seven gates. Seven gates of the underworld. And each threshold, each time she comes to a gate, she has to shed something of herself. She sheds her material items like the crown that she's wearing and the jewels she's wearing and the clothes that she's wearing. And she sheds at each one, it gets a little bit more like intangible. She has to shed her identity a little bit more. I haven't finished it fully. Oh I hope I'm not spoiling it.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

If we're not, you keep going. I should have finished it by now. So you can definitely go. I'm like 70% done.

unknown 28:12

Okay.

Practices For Self-Compassion

SPEAKER_00 28:13

But each time she has to come to terms with some of the identities that she's had her whole life, right? And so by the time she gets to gate seven, she is she's got nothing. She is at the very center of herself, like the core of her being. She's gotten rid of everything else. And she has to go to meet Ananna. And Ananna essentially kills or Arishkigal. Yeah. Essentially kills Inana. Arishkigal is her other sister that lives in the underworld. And so Arishkigal then hangs like Ananna up on a hook. For several days, Anana's handmaiden goes to the sky gods to plead for help because Ananna's not come back. And she knows something has happened. So she pleads to these sky gods, like, please help. And they say no. That she knew what she was getting into when she decided to go on this journey. They can't do anything for her. But I believe there is one of I don't know if he's a sky god. There is a god of some kind that does help. And this god in particular is one with he's described as having his fingers in the dirt. Like he's the gardener. He knows what the deep soil feels like because he's made the journey himself. He knows that he can't do anything to save Inanna, right? This is her journey. She has to come out of it on her own. But he sends wisdom or guidance in the form of two creatures who can slip past all seven gates. And by the time those two creatures get to Arishkigal, Arishkigal is in some kind of labor and she's moaning and groaning and in pain. And these creatures just empathize with her. When she moans, they moan, and she's it's reflected back to her, which is something that's never been done for her before. Because she's been in the dark in the underworld. She's rejected a lot of the time. So these creatures really they empathize with her. They feel what she feels and she sees that reflected back to her. And so when she's done laboring, she gifts these creatures a boon of some kind or like a gift of some kind. And I can't remember what it is exactly that they ask for, but they do sprinkle like I think one of it's like wheat or grain of some kind, and the other's like tears, maybe, but some kind of essence over Inanna's body that brings her back to life. And Arishkagal only lets Ananna go as long as she promises to make some kind of a sacrifice to Arishkagal. So Inanna goes back up to the upper world where she lives, only to find that her husband has usurped her and didn't care to come after her, didn't care what happened to her at all. Like he just wanted her throne. So she sacrifices him to the underworld. And her husband's sister, so her sister-in-law, comes to plead for compassion for her brother. And so what ends up happening is they share the two of them, brother and sister, share six months out of the year in the underworld with Arishka Girl. So I think that again speaks to the strength in compassion because Inana could have come back with like full of vengeance. Yes. And instead chose to hear her sister-in-law's plea for compassion. Yep. And integrated that request. I'm sure I am missing like huge parts of the story. So if this is at all appealing very well to you, please go read it.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

It's a really good. It makes me want to open this book because I'm trying to remember. Let's see. So there's a little just paragraph in the book that I like to read just about tarot stuff called Tarot for Change. And speaking back to the initiatory threshold, how it's usually like we're coming to terms or we're coming face to face with something that's like scary, right? But until we give that thing compassion, or until that thing receives compassion and understanding, we what's the term I'm looking for? We're coming to terms with something scary, like in that story with Arishkegal. Like she receives compassion, and then in turn she's able to give Anana like a second chance to go back up to upper world. Feels like forgiveness.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Forgiveness, yeah. In a little in in a little or like Arishkigal gives There's a transaction of some kind.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

There's a transaction, but the transaction only is like beneficial once we give the thing that we scare the most or that we fear the most, compassion and understanding. In this book, it says the forest-dwelling Arcadian god Pan, for example, is a gatekeeper who induces panic in those who wish to cross him. So initially, if we're like coming up against this godpan, like we just by stumbling across him, we feel panic. And that would be very easy to be like, we're gonna run. Like same with the lion. We stumble across the lion, we're gonna run from the lion. But it says, a swift death is brought to all who attempt to outrun him. But those who find a way to pay their respect and honor him as they enter his domain are blessed. With his powers, he then ensures that their crops yield abundant bounty and that their health is good. So it's like just another example of meeting the parts of ourselves that we're so fearful of with compassion and understanding has the effect of then being like what we needed, or being fruitful or being beneficial. They're parts of us. They're meant to be, it's meant to be accepted.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

There's a couple of quotes that come to mind when you say this. Two of which I found are from Rumi.

Eight, Infinity, And Renewable Courage

SPEAKER_01 34:24

My girl? Like Golden Hunter, like demon hunters? No, Rumi, like the poet. Yeah, the poet.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

My bad. One is the wound is the place where the light enters you. Suggesting that our pain and vulnerability are not just sources of suffering, but also gateways for healing, growth, and a deeper understanding.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

I'm feeling like Rumi from K-pop Demon Hunters is named after Rumi.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

I feel like a lot of, as we were talking about like embrace or like facing the lion and wanting to run, but not. Yeah, the demons. A lot of like stories came to mind. Yeah. Like I am a very avid fantasy reader. And I feel like almost all the fantasy books have a moment in the story or in the plot where the main character is half like is faced with something terrifying that they have to integrate within themselves for them to achieve what they're meant to achieve. Like I can think of so many examples where I'm like, oh yeah, totally. That's the lion in the story. Which I think is why it's so appealing, right? Why so many of these stories or these like fictional characters are so relatable or so interesting to us is because it's it's very psychic.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

It's very resonant. Yes. I remember being in like eighth grade, and one of my teachers teaching us how to write a fictional novel or something, and we had to do like the whole like the hero's journey. Like she taught about that for the purpose of our outline. Because it is, it just resonates.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Yeah. And there's a reason why. Whenever I find something that piques my interest that like I get curious about, I'm like, huh. I wonder why that's so interesting. Yeah. It's obviously important to my psyche. Otherwise, it wouldn't be touching my attention. Then the other quote from Rumi that I have here is that the these pains you feel are messengers, listen to them. Which I think again is a nod back to the like sacred dialogue we can have with ourselves, if you will. Like it is a conversation. Yeah. That we have to have a conversation. Which I think is why I'm like so into journaling at the moment. Yeah. I'm ready to have this conversation now. Again, it's not a conversation that happens all the time. Maybe unless you make unless you have the time. Which I always have the time. Sure. To be in conversation with myself.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

But yep. It's like creating intentional time to do that.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

I think my time that I dedicate to doing that is just going to therapy right now. It looks different, right? It looks different for everyone.

unknown 36:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Is there anything else we want to say about the strength card, or do we feel like we covered it?

SPEAKER_00 36:56

I think one thing I want to leave this episode with is I know it comes up a lot, or at least the side of media that I'm on, like the reparenting yourself, especially as a parent, as a young parent, myself. This is a conversation that my husband and I have all the time about reparenting ourselves or reparenting while parenting. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It's so hard. It is so hard. But one thing I have here is it's important to learn how to hold space for all of the difficult emotions without abandoning or attacking the self.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Which is hard to do. It is hard to do. I always say to people, I always say to my clients, like, I know this is so hard. Like why it's so interesting that we it's just so second nature for us to come at ourselves in such harsh ways. And I don't know, I don't really understand that. I don't know why that is. I don't know why somebody who's so loving and welcoming and kind to others, we have such an incredible time turning that inward. But I think the fact that we do have that ability to turn that outward means that we have the ability to turn it inward. We just have to like I think we going back to the beginning here, like we have to see ourselves as the child that exists within us. Like there's so many times where when I'm in therapy, I like view clients as like the little child sitting on my couch. And I think sometimes we have to also see that in ourselves to be able to make that shift into talking to ourselves more compassionately or with more kindness or whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Which is again, I think being in the present is so hard because it's so uncomfortable. So uncomfortable. Yep. But the more that you can do it and do it with a witness of some kind, whether that's yourself in that role as witness or with someone else that you feel safe with. But the more that you can create space for some of these things, it might get hard before it gets better. Always. But it will you won't feel like your unconscious is ruling, awaking ruled.

Initiatory Threshold: Hero Vs Heroine

SPEAKER_01 39:09

I'm gonna end with this little quote that just says strength equals compassion plus courage plus slow growth plus self-trust. Thank you so much for listening to our podcast today.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

If you have any thoughts, questions, feedback, anything you want to share with us, there is a Google form linked in our Instagram bio. You can leave a message for us there, send us a message on Instagram, however you like to share that with us. But thank you so much for listening and we hope that you tune in next week. Thank you.