Postpartum, Unfiltered

What if the kindest thing you did for your family was to slow down? We pressed pause on the weekly grind, and it opened a deeper conversation about postpartum: the messy middle between birth and “back to normal” that no one prepares you for. As therapists and moms, we compare notes on what actually helps—logistics that lower mental load, support that shows up, and simple habits that bring your nervous system back online.

We walk through concrete tools: how to use Aeroflow to secure an insurance-covered breast pump and replacement parts, why regular pump part swaps can improve output, and how a quick blood pressure check can catch rising postpartum preeclampsia. We demystify lactation support—request the hospital’s IBCLC, try Lactation Network for covered visits, and remember that your feeding plan should serve your mental health, not the other way around. For C‑section recovery, we swear by shower chairs, pillow bracing for coughs and laughs, slow movement, and even chewing gum to ease trapped gas.

Then we get honest about postpartum mental health. PMADs are common, intrusive thoughts can be egodystonic, and safety is the north star: put the baby down, breathe, step outside, and return when regulated. Social support is the strongest protective factor, so we share how to tap Postpartum Support International’s free online groups and their Connect PSI app, including options for dads, LGBTQ+, and Spanish speakers. We also talk sleep realities—yes, many families co‑sleep—and how to make the safest choices you can sustain without drowning in shame or exhaustion.

If you’re craving fewer rules and more relief, this episode is your permission slip. Expect clear steps, warm validation, and a reminder that small changes—opening a window, taking a walk, prepping freezer burritos—can shift an entire day. 

We’re moving to a biweekly cadence to bring you more thoughtful conversations, plus upcoming guests and a series on the many paths to motherhood. If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who’s in the thick of it, and leave a review to help more parents find these tools. Your village starts here.

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Transcript

New Year And Community Event

SPEAKER_04 0:52

Welcome back to Heart on the Table. Happy New Year.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

We took a little break. Yes, it was a much needed break, but we did have a very wonderful event last week. So thank you to all of those who came. It was so much fun. We had lots of great feedback and we are so looking forward to planning something in the future.

SPEAKER_04 1:13

Yes, it was so much fun. Like I really enjoyed it. Um, I think in total we had 11 of us. Um I just think it was fun. Like it was fun. I a lot of the feedback that I received from some of the people that came was that it was just nice to like connect with others and kind of share the vision that we had for the new year. And I you know, I think that like these opportunities to connect in person with other people, it's just, I don't know, they're just not like ample. You know, I think I also know that some of the people who came really, you know, were nervous to come, but they decided to come anyway. Like, I think one person shared like coming is like to something like that is not something that she would usually do. So that's kind of why she pushed herself to do it. And I think it was just really fun. I hung up my vision board next to my bed, and it's been good to see it. Usually I would just like put something like that away, but it's been a good thing to just like glance at and kind of like have a good reminder of some of the goals that I set for the year.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Yeah. Yes, it was I think really special that we all just kind of got to sit down and really talk about what our intentions were for the year. And some of them were similar, I think, across experiences, and some of them were different and specific, and hearing where each individual was coming from in terms of what they had been through the previous year and what they were hoping for this year was really, really special.

Slowing The Podcast Pace

SPEAKER_04 2:55

Yep. I know that we would really like to prioritize doing a few more of those, hopefully this year, but that brings me to talking about some changes that we're gonna make just in regards to our podcast and what that looks like kind of moving forward with Miranda here. She's gonna be having a baby in April. So we I think the break also maybe allowed us to kind of like reconsider what we want to do with podcasts for right now. So I think we're gonna maybe go back to doing an every other Wednesday episode, which is what we kind of started and brainstormed initially. But I think we were just so excited at the beginning, we were just like, let's do every every Wednesday, or at least that's what I was that's where I was at. Yeah. We were just so ready to ready, gung-ho, and I think it's been good, but I also like I can't speak for you, but I'm tired. I'm tired too. I'm tired. Like, we are both uh, you know, Miranda is pregnant. I am still postpartum, and you know, I've had a baby last year. He's been a very difficult baby. We're tired. We want to bring things to the community, but we're also like working moms, and I think that we also deserve to rest on the weekends. So we're still excited about our podcast. We're still planning on bringing you new content. We have some plans for like some guests. Yeah, I really want to prioritize that. But like we're, you know, I think one of my goals this year was to like do a little bit less so that I could actually finish the things that I start. And I think in us taking a step back, it will allow us to make some, I don't know, to make our content a little bit more meaningful, feel a little less rushed because initially we were recording two episodes in one day. I think prioritizing one episode and then having two weeks to kind of push out content for that episode to our social medias on TikTok and Instagram feels more doable.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

More intentional.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

More intentional. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah. And like I was telling Brie this morning, like good things take time. If last year taught me anything, it was that I can't rush things that aren't meant to be rushed. Yeah. So we're just going to be slowing it down a little bit and making things more meaningful, more intentional. Yeah. And we hope that you feel that.

Intentional Content And Rest

Note: Combined With Prior For Flow

SPEAKER_04 5:37

Yep. Today we are going to be talking about postpartum. Do you want to share like how because this was kind of your idea?

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Yeah. I think this was probably always something that we were going to be talking about, and probably something that we'll talk about again. Um, like an ongoing conversation. But I think how it came up is we were actually on our way to I think we were looking for journals. We were searching for journals. Craft supplies. Craft supplies for our event that we had last weekend. Um this is a couple weeks ago. And um Brie told me about Aeroflow, which I had heard about my first time postpartum, but never really in like investigated it much. I didn't there was so much on my plate on my mind that like one more thing didn't feel doable. But what I didn't know about Aeroflow was that you can like submit a prescription, right?

SPEAKER_04 6:45

You submit, so Aeroflow, you kind of attach like who you can search in a database who your doctor is, and they will you can you can do it one of two ways. They will contact your doctor for you and request a prescription for a breast pump, or you can submit the prescription to them from your doctor for a breast pump. And then on Aeroflow, you get to browse all of the different breast pumps that your insurance qualifies you for. Um, and you get to pick one.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Yeah. And I think you also told me too that on top of that, you your like breast milk bags are covered too. Breast milk bags are covered. Yep, storage and sometimes pump parts. Yes. Which that I think is what kind of blew my mind because my first time postpartum, I was just given like a prescription, like a website to go to. I think it was like a medical equipment website or whatever, and I was told to pick one. I had like two options, I think. And so I picked one and it ended up working really well, but I guess with each pregnancy, you pick a new, you're able, you're eligible to pick a new breast pump. So I've been exploring those because not only did I pick one from insurance last time, I also bought like three of my own. Can't even tell you how many I've purchased, and yes. For different reasons, right? To just explore like ease of convenience and like output and absolutely stuff like that. Because it's hard to like pumping is a full-time job. It is a full-time job. And it was really something I wanted to do too. Like I I made it to a year last time. Yeah. Barely, but I did it. Was so like proud and bittersweet and exhausted at the end of it all. Yeah. Um, but this time around, like, I did not know that that you could be eligible for all of those other things. And I remember learning like probably two or three months into pumping that you had to replace pump parts, and I was like, oh, this was not something I knew about that I was planning on. So then researching. I don't know that I really even replaced mine. But you should. They tell you to. I think it's supposed to help with like output. It is, yep. Because the pumps get like the pump parts get tired.

SPEAKER_04 9:25

Stretched out, especially like this. There, a lot of them are silicone, so they get kind of like stretched out over time as you wash them and things.

Postpartum Focus And Why It Matters

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Yeah. And I did think it helped when I changed my parts out. Um, but it would have been so helpful if some of that stuff was just automatic and I didn't have to think about it. I think the mental load is something we're gonna be talking about today, too. But so that was kind of the inspiration for this episode.

Aeroflow, Insurance, And Pump Logistics

SPEAKER_04 9:55

And I think so. Something I'm not sure that we've shared. I am perenatal mental health certified as a therapist, and Miranda's also done the training. Yeah, have you done part two? I need to do part two. I can't fit it into my skin. Totally. But she also is like on that same track. So with that, I think you know, we also have that expertise in sharing and speaking to, not only from our own experience, but some from some like clinical trainings that we've taken as well. Um, and I just don't think that some common feedback that I hear, and also one of my good friends was like, I wish you would create an episode on she was like, You should create an episode talking about like breastfeeding and feeding, just general, generally. But also I hear feedback often that like nobody really talks about what happens after birth, you know, or like what to expect. And it's so funny because I feel like I know all about it, but I I often feel like as a therapist, I'm like, oh, everyone knows these things. Everyone knows what this means, everyone knows what that is. But then I remember that like I have a very specialized like set of knowledge and skills that I went and set out, like I got my degree in. And a lot of the knowledge that I have, people don't have. And I think that like I just think postpartum, you know, you're often kind of like checked off by your doctor after six weeks. And then what? Like your doctor, your OB, your midwife, whoever checks you out, makes sure that you're healing pretty good, and then just kind of sends you off on your own. And I don't really know that anyone else ever checks in. Maybe the pediatrician gives you the little uh screening form, you know, on I think it's like the three-month, six-month, nine-month appointments. I don't even know that I've been given the screening form from my pediatrician this time around, but they're supposed to. Yeah, it's a good practice to anyway. I just don't think people talk about postpartum. So today we will just share some of the things that I think are worthwhile in knowing. Some of these things we were kind of considering to be like hacks, you know, like things that are just good to know and to remember that are good for like caring for yourself postpartum, or things that like I was in the hospital wishing that I had. And then maybe some of those other things we'll talk about are like just more related to like what to expect postpartum. Yeah. Should I kick us off or what do you where do you want to go?

SPEAKER_02 12:40

I think it's just so important as you were talking about not knowing like what happens postpartum. My thought went to like, I think the expectation is that you have a village of come some kind, but that is not always the case in this day and age. Like some people don't have a village and they have to figure it out on their own. Yep. And be their own village, which is incredibly hard. As you're dealing with like the the what is it, the the biggest hormone drop of your life. And I don't I can't remember how long after delivery.

SPEAKER_04 13:22

So that was one thing that I wanted to talk about. That will kind of bring me in. So it is the way that we are trained, so through Postpartum Support International, they define the perinatal period from conception to 12 months after delivery. Um, and like that meaning that like your hormones really can take up to a year to kind of stabilize. And if you are nursing, that also adds like another layer of complexity to your hormones stabilizing because your hormones kind of get out of whack when you begin to wean.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

I had seen something this morning about like how long it takes physical recovery. I think it's usually that six-week mark when you go into your checkup, they check you physically. Yeah. But then emotionally it's more like two years, and to find your identity again, it's more like five years. Which I feel like for people who choose to have more than one child, sometimes you wait five years, sometimes you wait less than a year, you know. It uh having a second child, there's no timeline for that. But like five years is a long time to rediscover who you are, and if you are at any point in that time going to have a second or even a third one, like that just extends the amount of time where you aren't quite sure, you know, of yourself for who you are, how you fit into this new role.

Pump Parts, Output, And Mental Load

SPEAKER_04 15:00

Yeah, because there's not time. You know, like that just makes me think of I was just I got my nails done this morning and I was talking with the nail, the girl who does my nails, and I was just talking about like how with my daughter, I felt like she knows she was four, and I felt like we finally had like a good routine where I was like able to kind of have my hobbies again and have time at night to kind of like you know exist with my husband in peace for a little bit, and now having another baby has thrown all of that up in the air again. Where I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty, like there's not a lot of time, right? Like, there's there's not a lot of time to do any of my hobbies, like, and in some sense, we've really been in survival mode with this baby. Like, it not only was his journey Earthside very traumatizing and really threw all of our lives out of whack, but like it's just he's been a hard baby, you know, and there hasn't been time to like connect. So, with that being said, I'd like to share some of the things that I found to be very helpful with my experience. And I think I was kind of combing through like Reddit threads last night to see like what people shared to kind of refresh my memory that is just helpful to know postpartum. Um the first one I'm thinking about with Grayson because it was just there was a lot of stress, a lot of anxiety. One of the things that I think is so important postpartum is getting outside. Like I just think it's even if it's cold outside, like walking outside, maybe going for a drive on in your car. I saw someone even recommended like taking a vitamin D supplement if it's like winter time and you're unable to go outside. I sat outside with Grayson every single day when we brought him home from the NICU. Like I would just go sit outside and I just wanted to feel the sun on my face. I wanted, I did a lot of walks. I just wanted fresh air. I wanted to get out of like the four walls of my home. Like go outside.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Yeah. Which is also helpful for baby too, in terms of like the circadian rhythm, like getting used to that sunshine. So there's more than just the one benefit, but I think incredibly important, we tend to forget the importance of just being outdoors.

SPEAKER_04 17:35

I saw someone on Reddit, they said that their like midwife looked at them at their like after delivery and when they were discharging, and he was, or she was like, my midwife said it with such a stern voice that I was like, I think I have to take her seriously. And her advice was just get outside. Like, get outside. And it's so, you know, we talk about like the connection to nature a lot. And I was reading in uh this book last week, she was talking about how like we really have to intentionally seek out connection to nature, and she says it's often we often don't even have the opportunity to feel the earth beneath our feet because usually when we go outside we have our shoes on. Um and like that just I don't know, that just resonates for me. But I think that like that connection to nature is so important postpartum because like I don't know, it just like activates something within me. It did.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

I was thinking just in terms of like all the projects that we have going on for this year, but we were hoping to start a garden of some kind. But like being outside and putting your hands in soil or like your feet in the dirt or in the grass, like is a natural way to activate your dopamine responses. And it's so much more powerful than the you know, uh, what would you call it? Like art not artificial dopamine hits that we get from our phone, but I would say what I was trying to do.

Defining The Perinatal Window

SPEAKER_04 19:10

I mean, it's very disconnected from like our natural what I think our natural desires are. Uh somebody at the Vision Board event, she was like, There was a couple vision board like photos or whatever that had like Instagram and Facebook on them, and she was like, Yeah, because uh every single one of us is just thinking that we want more of that this year. And I'm like, no, everyone wishes that they spend less time on their phone. I don't think anyone has a goal of like, I want to be on my phone more this year. No, yeah. I don't think I've ever heard that. And I've never heard that in my life. Everyone always wants less time. So thinking like, you know, in uh in postpartum, I think that brings me to the like no rules. If you need to, like if you're a feeding baby, if you need to break and you need to just scroll on your phone for a minute, that's okay too. But what you don't have to have rules for yourself, you don't have to have expectations, but I think getting go outside and scroll on your phone, you know, like go try to go outside. That's like my big one of my biggest hacks, I think, for like feeling good, feeling grounded.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

And I think the first part of awareness in noticing what we need less of, like noticing we need less time on the screen, the other side of that is noticing what instead we want more of too. Yeah. That's the other half of that. So, like you said, go outside, yeah. But be in the sun.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

Be in the sun. I remember uh this just came back to. Me, one of the reasons why I really liked taking Grayson outside too when he was, you know, in that like newborn stage, he would always fall asleep. I would take him outside. It was guaranteed he would fall asleep out in his little rocker, kind of in the shade. And that was just like relief for me. Um, yeah, like I think so, where is it? In like Denmark, where they like let put babies in the snow and like wrap them up in the snow in like a little bassinet, and I just leave them outside because they sleep better. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

And I was thinking too, I had seen something about even just I think it's just important for us across all ages. But I was reading about, I think it was I want to say it was Sweden, maybe it was Finland, but that the way they wake their children up from sleep is like they don't go in to say like good morning and ask a bunch of questions like how'd you sleep? I find myself doing that sometimes. But instead, they like go into the room and open the windows and open, let the fresh air the windows, yep. And that triggers something like biologically, like the fresh air, even if it's cold outside, will like wake up your nervous system or it will do something for your nervous system.

SPEAKER_04 22:07

Yes. I have heard that too. I was trying to do that like at the beginning of last year. I think one of my New Year's resolutions was just like keeping my house always a little tidier. But one of the girls I followed on TikTok said every single morning I open up the blinds, and if it's the cold months, I just open my windows for even just five minutes to just let the fresh air in, to hear the birds like singing outside. Like that does something for us.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:35

Okay, I'm going to talk about the taking your blood pressure. So postpartum preeclampsia is on the rise. I'm the pre-eclampsia like queen at this point, since I ended up with it really bad in my I am pretty positive that I had postpartum pre-eclampsia in my first pregnancy as well, but I was turned away in the ER. But my blood pressure spiked. So, and I think it's just fortunate that nothing happened and we were all good. Um, but the second time I had it horribly, and I don't feel like doctors are like educating people on the importance of taking your blood pressure, even like the few days after delivery. I think it's so important because postpartum pre-eclampsia for whatever reason is becoming more common. Take your blood pressure. I just feel strongly about that. Preeclampsia, you were supposed to like the delivery of the placenta was supposed to be the thing that got rid of it or got rid of your risk of it, but apparently postpartum pre-clampsia is on the rise and you can catch it yourself by taking your blood pressure. And I just don't know that like people are getting discharged really being educated on that. So I feel strongly about the importance of just taking your blood pressure just to check in with like what's going on with you and inside of you.

Identity Shifts And Timeframes

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Yeah. Now that you mention it, when I think about like what those last few days at the hospital were like, and you know, they kind of explained to you what you're supposed to look out for, how many times like baby is supposed to peer poop and you know what to do, how often to feed, that sort of thing, but they really don't educate you on yourself. Like, I think I remember asking for some help navigating the breast pump. I think I'd brought it with me. And I was like, is someone able to show me how to do this? I mean, I'm sure I could read the manual, but like I don't learn that way as well as doing the thing, especially in that state and state of mind, state of being. And it was just like, no, you can read the manual. Really? Yeah, nobody showed me how to use it. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 24:47

Yeah. So that ask for a lactation support person at your hospital. There, every hospital should have one. So if you are feeling like you're in the hospital and you need help with your breast pump, there should absolutely be there. There is somebody there that specializes in lactation. They're not there all the time. But like if you want help with your breast pump, you should be able to ask a nurse for lactation support and they will come help you. And I will tell you, they're not always the most helpful. I had some that were more helpful than others. Uh, the one that I had at Lone Peak this last time was awesome. She was like incredibly helpful. But there are also IBCLCs, I think is their title. It's like international internationally board certified lactation consultants. You can find them anywhere. There's a website. I think it's Lactation Network. Let me see if I can find it because, in terms of like also helpful websites, it's lactationnetwork.com. You put in your insurance information and they will show you a list of lactation consultants in your area that you should be able to go uh meet with. If you want to breastfeed, I highly recommend meeting with an IB CLC. That makes me sad that you like nobody came to help you and they just told you to read the manual. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Yeah. Well, and it's like you don't know what you don't know. Absolutely. I do think that I ended up going to see a different uh there was a couple of pediatrician options at like the clinic that we chose, and one of them specialized in lactation. So I did meet with her one time. Yeah. One time. And I think we were probably like two months postpartum at that point.

First Aid For The Mind: Get Outside

SPEAKER_04 26:44

But yeah. Yeah. The one that I had, she came to my house. Really? Which I don't know why they all don't offer that. Because them coming to your house, I remember feeling so relieved because with Charlie, I did have some difficulty breastfeeding at the beginning. I didn't have that same difficulty with Grayson. She came to my house. We should not be making like postpartum moms who are still bleeding and in pain have to go anywhere to get lactation support. That's crazy. You know, so some IBC LCs will come to your house. Also, I think that in talking just about like challenges with breastfeeding, let's just normalize that. Because there's so much misconception about like breastfeeding being the natural way to feed a baby that I think we often miss the area of like it's also difficult and can be challenging. And uh there are other ways to feed your baby. I think that like mental health comes first. And if feeding your baby breastfeeding, you know, is causing you mental duress, it's stressful. Uh, what's most important is that mom is feeling okay. So like I think normalizing the challenges that can come with breastfeeding is also incredibly important. I in the hospital, I remember my experience with Charlie. They were really, and I wanted to nurse, right? Like I really did, but I remember feeling so much anxiety about like how they were coming at it trying to get me to nurse. So I do think it's important for moms to just recognize like you don't have to nurse, you don't.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

There's always more than one way, and I think going back to about like the mental health being such a priority is that your baby will sense your own regulation and use that to regulate themselves. And I think that's why it's so important that mom is okay. Yep. So that baby is okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

Yeah. That I think there's just still a lot of stigma and a lot of shame surrounding, and that is some of the mental health challenges that comes with being postpartum. I think if the statistic is one in five women will struggle with uh PMADs. So that's just postpartum uh mood and anxiety disorders. It's like it is it's one in five. It it does they these things do show up, and there is a lot of support, and there's a lot of uh ways that we can receive treatment for that, and that doesn't mean that you've done anything wrong, right? Like your body is adapting, your hormones are all over the place. Uh, I think one of the challenges that really makes an impact is when, you know, here in America, we don't have we don't have really any standard for maternity leave, which is insane. And especially for fathers, there's really absolutely no standard for fathers as well. And one of the most beneficial things for new moms in kind of combating mood and anxiety disorders is social support. So thinking about like that is difficult, you know, it's difficult to receive here in where we're at in America. Um because of that, right, there are other ways to kind of go about treatment. And, you know, sometimes like I think figuring out how can you how can you access social support is a good question to be asking. Who can you lean on? And the fact that you may need to lean on anybody does not have to be shameful, right? Like we are at one point in like the long-ago history, we're supposed to be villagers. But also, like, if you need a little bit of help with a med, there's no shame in that. With my birth experience with Grayson, they put me on LuxPro. I remember being in the hospital and one of the nurses asked me, like, Do you feel like you want an anxiety med? And I was like, No, I think I'm good. I'm gonna be okay. And then shit hit the fan again. And when that nurse came in, I said, You get me an anxiety med, or I'm never getting out of this hospital. There's no shame in that, right? Like, that's what those meds are for. They're they're to help stabilize you when it's difficult remaining stable, maybe on our own. There's absolutely no shame in needing to take medication. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yeah. And I think the more that we have like create spaces for these conversations, the more safety that will create for people to not feel so ashamed. I think there is a lot of shame associated with needing help or feeling certain ways a postpartum, and you know, prevents people from getting the help that they need, so they just continue to suffer. Yeah. Yeah.

Screens, Sunlight, And Nervous System

SPEAKER_04 32:15

Um you bringing that up just about like shame just makes me think of like some of we have mood and anxiety disorders, but there's such a like vast kind of experience of what you can experience postpartum. And I think one of the like highly stigmatized things is just like postpartum rage and postpartum OCD, which is where you're with postpartum rage, you might be having thoughts, right? Like thoughts that are hard to speak, like into the world. And I think it's incredibly important for people who have OCD or are experiencing postpartum rage that those thoughts are oftentimes egodystonic, meaning they're not they're not thoughts that you want to act on, right? Like it's just our body kind of giving us some information, especially in the realm of postpartum rage, that maybe we need to step away if we're beginning to have thoughts of like harm. Um, but the important thing is recognizing that like thoughts are not beliefs, right? Like our brain just it just makes thoughts. Um, so if we're experiencing those kinds of thoughts, just recognizing the importance of taking that seriously and that there's no shame in having to put baby down to step away, to step outside and regulate yourself so that you can then go back and tend to baby.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think too that like you said, the shame around those thoughts and then prevents moms from getting the help that they need, right? They don't want to tell anybody that they're having these thoughts because they don't they're afraid for maybe, you know, maybe that means I'm not a good mom, or maybe they'll take my baby away. Those are also scary. They are you know that that come up, I think, when you have those ego dystonic thoughts. Yeah. Because your brain is trying to rationalize like the thought that I'm having, I can't share with anyone, or it might have consequences. But I think that it is so important that you share with someone you trust, someone who is safe, and someone who knows how to get the help that you need. The help that you need.

SPEAKER_04 34:31

And I like I a good provider should be assessing whether or not those thoughts are egodystonic or egosyntonic. Right. Like there should be questions around like, have you thought about harming baby? Have you thought about actually doing that? And then, you know, if the answer to that is yes, well, then it's a sign that like you need more help, right? And there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with that. If the answer to that is no, you're just having the thoughts, you still need help, right? And there's there's nothing wrong with that. But in just speaking to more of like the ego dystonic thoughts, there's so there's just a lot of shame, I think, about like for moms who experience those kinds of thoughts. I've talked with clients about it myself, and I too have had thoughts where I'm completely emotionally overwhelmed, and I'm having the thought of like scary thoughts, yeah. Right. Um, and me and my husband have been able to talk that through, especially with a more like challenging baby. So the importance of being able to just have some of your own regulation techniques, but always recognizing that like safety comes first and putting the baby down is okay. Yeah. If the baby needs to cry for 10 minutes while you step outside and reset, that is okay. And it doesn't mean anything about you.

Blood Pressure And Preeclampsia Risks

SPEAKER_02 35:53

And I think too having some of these conversations with a support person prior to postpartum is incredibly important. Like again, you don't know the first time around what you don't know. Absolutely. But but I think if you experience some of those things your first time postpartum, and then you do have a second experience postpartum, and you've had these scary egodistonic thoughts that you haven't shared with anybody that can create anticipatory like feelings of uh just anxiety in general, I think, on top of all of the other things, right? On top of the rage, on top of the OCD thoughts, like having anxiety about the thoughts. This was my experience last time, so I anticipate it's going to be similar this time. And knowing how much you know you suffered the first time, how incredibly lonely it can be, you know, you know where you've been. But I think having those conversations with a support person, someone you can rely on, someone who, you know, whether or not they experienced the first time with you, just someone who you know you can depend on when you are going through something scary.

SPEAKER_04 37:14

Yeah, yes. Like I think that that's the problem here is that like nobody really talks about the postpartum experience with mom around like what to expect. Um, it makes me think of talking about like if you are a woman who's birthing in a hospital, this is just another like this is kind of going a different direction about what a doula is. I had no idea before giving birth to Charlie that a doula was something that you could hire for a hospital birth. I thought a doula was just for like at-home birth. Um, but a doula is somebody who is there specifically to support mom because the hospital staff, while they are supporting mom, they're really when you are giving birth, it's really kind of about getting baby out safe. Having a doula in both of my experiences, I had the same one. Absolute game changer in just knowing that, like somebody, you know, my husband was there too, and he was supportive, but I really wanted somebody there who was just there to help me. And having a doula was absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

You bring up a good point too, because dad in this situation is also going through his own experience that I don't know that gets talked about enough either.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

Yeah, and our our doula was able to kind of help Tori help me because otherwise I don't think he would have known what to do. You know, and she was there to kind of like help support him through the experience as well. Like it's kind of unfortunate that we have to like seek that out ourselves in our society, like somebody to support us, the birthing person, through the experience of um giving birth. It's not just a standard of care. It's not just a standard of care. We have to like pay for that out of pocket and find it ourselves, but it is out there um and I think is incredibly helpful.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

And like you said, you didn't know that could exist in a different setting. Yeah. Like I think typically, too, my first impression is that those are doulas are for home births. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 39:30

I had no idea until one of my friends was like, Oh, we had a doula. And I was like, Oh, did you birth at home? She's like, No, girl, doula, she helped me out in the hospital. And I was like, I want one of those. And it was incredibly, especially in my first birth where I did unmedicated but in the hospital. That was it was a game changer. Like I couldn't have done it without her.

SPEAKER_05 39:55

Yeah.

Lactation Support That Actually Helps

SPEAKER_04 39:55

Okay, c-sections. Here's my now that I have had a c-section, I think one of the best things after my c-section was a shower chair. Wouldn't have known that. Wouldn't have been prepared I wasn't prepared for that. I think I bought one when I was in the hospital because I was told how have actually Jill, my office mate, she sent me a shower chair because she said it was incredibly helpful for her. Shower chair after C-section, you want one. They're incredible. Getting up after having a C-section is the most incredibly challenging, crazy feeling you'll ever experience in your entire life because your abdomen is no longer working. So it is weird. Some other C-section things I'm thinking about. When you laugh, I want you to just always have a pillow near you after you have a C section. You're it's gonna become your best friend. You're gonna hold. Hold that pillow to you anytime you're like using your breath. You cough, you laugh, you hold a pillow to your abdomen, and that thing is gonna be your best friend. I can't even tell you like anytime I would laugh, I would hold the pillow because it was just like I don't know. I think it helps to like stabilize your abdomen a little bit. Because again, your abdomen, she she she's gone. She's it's a very bizarre feeling to not have your core. Yeah. You don't know how much your core is like helping you in your life until you have a c-section. It's fucking weird. Um also slow movement, like getting up, trying to walk around as much as you can after a C-section is incredibly important. I think it's also helpful just with the vaginal birth as well. But like they say that when you have a C-section, your body, I think it's just from like being open and then closed. I think after any surgery, it like traps gas. I luckily did not have this experience, but I have heard it can be very, very painful. And I was told that getting up and moving around slow movement is like the best thing to help that, as well as chewing gum. Yeah. I'm trying to think of any other C-section things.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

I think it's incredibly powerful. Because you were telling me that you received chewing gum as like a gift. I did. At my baby shower. Yeah. And how important it is, I think, that like that's special. That someone thought about their own experience and wanted you to be as prepared as you could have been. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:29

For whatever happened. Yep. I mean, I think that's why she gave me chewing gum because I know she had I think she had had a C-section herself. But I was like very confused about that until I ended up finding out online that chewing gum helps with like the trapped gas situation. I think that being flexible and adaptive throughout your birth experience is also so important. And also holding on to like you can also feel grief, you know, if things don't go as you hoped. I mean, that's what happened to me with the delivery of my son. But like I did receive feedback in the hospital that like I was very, I was handling it well. People kept telling me you're handling this very well. And I think it is like, you know, I was devastated and I had moments of grief, but I think I have an ability to be adaptive and to be flexible. And I think that that I just think we have to like not have or hold tightly to our expectations when we are going into giving birth. Or in postpartum. You know, I think that there's a lot of expectations about what it's gonna look like bringing home baby. There's expectations around sleep. You have your own expectations, but like society puts a lot of expectations on us as well. And you don't know until you're in, until you're in it, how you're gonna react, how baby's gonna sleep, right? Like my both my kids never slept in their bassinets. I tried, I have tried everything, especially with Grayson. He doesn't want to do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Which I think is another thing I noticed in the last couple weeks is with like sleep in particular. I didn't realize how common it was co-sleeping. Like the more people that I talked to, the more like, oh yeah, that was my experience too. And I was like, why aren't we talking about this? Like, I know. I could have saved myself months of struggle and I just known that it was okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:34

Yeah, I mean that's also a big one, right? And I it's interesting because I see I see both sides. I see a lot of people talk about like, well, you know, I've I've people have had experiences where like they have lost a baby bed sharing and co-sleeping. But also like I I do think as parents we just have to do what feels right to us. You know, and for me, like I brought home a NICU baby and he was tiny, and we we did bed share. Like, I thought when I was bringing home my NICU baby too, back to like expectations. Thought when I was bringing home a Nicky baby that he was gonna be like trained. I was like, oh, this baby's been sleeping on his own. He's been in a bassinet with a Binky, like he's gonna do all the things, he's gonna be just fine. No, the literal second that he came, first night. They said he was such an easy baby at the NICU. I'm like, we brought him home. I put him in his bassinet. He said, absolutely not, mom. I'm not sleeping in here. So I don't know that I slept great at the beginning bringing him home and having him sleep next to me because he was so tiny. Yeah. But we did do it.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:50

And it is common. Yeah.

Normalize Feeding Choices

SPEAKER_02 45:52

And I I do want to speak to the fact that that is a very valid experience that happens. People lose babies that way. And that is absolutely devastating and absolutely terrifying. Um, I can only speak to my own experience, and I do think that those first four months where I was sleeping in a rocking chair was more dangerous than sleeping in bed. Um, I will just speak to that. Like that I lost so much sleep. I was delirious. Yes. So I think just knowing that there again is more than one way. There's more than one way to feed, there's more than one way to sleep, there's more than one way to take care of you. Very important. Yes, very important. And I think we didn't um talk about our story polls, but I will mention that I posted those and then I forgot to screenshot the results. Uh-huh. That's my bad. Going back to the super busy my brain feels fried. But, anyways, I think some of those questions were about like, what did you need? Or and I think a lot of it was emotional validation. That's the one that stood out to me the most.

SPEAKER_04 47:03

Almost every single answer, I think, except for my sisters, who's never had a baby, was emotional support and validation. Was was is what would have been the most helpful. And I think that just highlights the importance of like, you know, the people around, you know, if you're not like the one who's giving birth, the importance of recognizing one, how important it is to just validate the experience of the person that you know who has given birth. But also for those who are the birthing person, you get to ask for support. Yeah. You get to ask for what you need.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

Which I think is hard, especially as I was hearing you say like earlier that you were told in the hospital you were handling it well, which I feel like my initial like thought to that was, well, if you're handling it well, then you don't need anything. Yeah. And that's not true, right? And I do think so. For those questions, I did I did word it as like if you had ever been close to someone experiencing postpartum, what was your perspective? And how different that is when you're the birthing person versus when you're the support person, and like just the again, the the highlight of importance in communication about what really is needed versus what is perceived to be needed. Yeah. I think there's a lot of talk too about going back to like rules with visitors postpartum. And like I think I see a lot of videos, but maybe that's because it's just curated to my algorithm. But that like, you know, you want the the villagers to come over who are going to not necessarily like focus on baby, but more focus on taking care of you, focus on taking care of things around the house that you can do at the moment before making the visit about baby. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:03

Helping mom. Yeah. I will say that I think one of the reasons why I was able to feel some emotional like resiliency in the hospital. Don't get me wrong, I was also very much struggling. Like I said, I looked at that nurse, I said, you find me an anxiety medication immediately, or my blood pressure will never come down because this has been so much. But I had a wonderful, you know, not only did I have the nurse that I really connected with, I had a lot of amazing nurses at Lawn Peak that really like validated me. And you know, my husband was incredible through that experience. Like I felt not only did I feel like people were taking care of me physically, I too felt emotionally supported in the hospital. And I think I was very lucky. I think that's very rare, but I did feel like my emotions were being taken seriously, and I just think that we need more of that. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, um trying to think of anything else that I think is important here. Can you think of anything? I think I need to make a new list about what I need.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

That was part of them. Yep. I was gonna say silverettes. Did you use those? I had them. I don't know that I knew how to use them.

PMADs, Stigma, And Support

SPEAKER_04 50:33

You know what? It's funny, I didn't have to use them the second time around, but the first time around, my I don't think my daughter had a great latch. My son has a much better latch. My daughter, my nipples, they were in so much pain, y'all. Okay, they were it's crazy the difference experiences I've had nursing each child. Silverettes saved my life. They're these little sterling silver nursing, like little cups. You stick them on your nipples in between feeding. I would put on a little like nipple cream in between and then stick it on my boob. And it just keeps it, it's a barrier so that your nipples are not rubbing on your nursing pads. Like it, you they're just nice to have.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Yeah, they don't pick them as chapped or don't make them as chapped.

SPEAKER_04 51:19

And the sterling silver like helps them heal.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:23

So if they're if you do have a kid with a like like a shitty latch that makes you in pain, then it's silverettes are helpful. The last thing I'm gonna say, I think that meal prepping is helpful. You know, we were so fortunate this last time that we had a lot of people bringing us food. I was like very, very incredibly incre I felt incredibly supported this last time around. Yeah. Um, just because of how everything went down. But with my daughter, I don't think we had the same amount of people who showed up for us. I think I've just made a lot of mom friends along the way since having my daughter. However, if you can meal prep for yourself, you do it. Like meal prep some burritos, meal prep some easy things to just throw into the because like you don't when you bring a baby home, you don't want to think about cooking.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:21

Meal prep some things that feel like they're nutritionally like dense and just have those on prep.

SPEAKER_02 52:29

Yeah. I think the first time we made a bunch of breakfast burritos that were like life-saving. Yep. But I don't think we made enough, but I mean we made a lot. I wished we'd have made more, so that's what we're gonna do this time. Yes. We also um we were at Costco yesterday um and bought some like silicone food storage for like soups and things. Yeah. Yeah. That I would also say is very important. We're gonna be prioritizing this time around. Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 53:04

I feel like that kind of sums up this, like what I had in mind for talking about some postpartum stuff. Um, I wanna just throw out one more thing because I don't think a lot of people know this. Postpartum Support International, their website, they have like tons of free online support groups. Yes. And knowing that like they have that because social support is the number one. What is the word I'm looking for?

SPEAKER_02 53:33

Predictor.

SPEAKER_04 53:35

I don't think predictor, like preventive. Preventative. That's not quite the word I'm thinking of. Social protective, I think. Protective, that's the word. Social support is the number one protective factor for PMATs. So, like, that is why PSI has as many groups that are free and online available. They're often run by like a peer support, like a peer support person, which means it's like someone just like you, right? Who's running the group. But there is a group for literally everything. So these groups are accessible.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

I think they also have a dad group or a couple.

SPEAKER_04 54:10

They do have a dad, yep. They have dads groups. I think they have groups for like LGBT parents, they have groups for literally probably everything you can think of. And I just think that like just knowing that if you are someone who maybe you're in a more rural area, maybe you're somebody who doesn't know a lot of you know other parents, knowing that there is this resource out there can be really helpful to just go access support.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

Yes, there is an app. I didn't know that. So there's an app called Connect PSI. It's white and blue. Um, and you open it and it tells you what their services are. It says, I want to talk to someone, I want to learn more, or I want to connect with others. So a couple of different choices that you have, and I'm sure they have a at the bottom, they have different tabs for groups, material, and more. The more tab has things like um we used to get involved PSI in Spanish um chapters locally and things like that. I'm just looking at their groups here. It looks like they have uh PSI Perinatal Mental Health Support, PSI Loss and Grief Support, PSI Abortion and Termination for Medical Reasons support, and a Spanish group. So check it out. Yeah, mm-hmm. It's free, it's an amazing resource.

SPEAKER_04 55:35

It is. It's great. Um, okay. Thank you so much for joining us today. I have I hope this was like a helpful episode. I, you know, we're also we do like the tarot thing, we're also moms, we're trying to bridge the two. I think that we will have another episode in two weeks, if that's kind of the course that we're gonna follow, so that we can have more rest.

Postpartum Rage And OCD Explained

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Yes, and relaxation ourselves. Trying to practice what we preach. Exactly. Yes. Um, yes. But if you have any thoughts, comments, questions about today's episode or want to um share your thoughts, feedback for future episodes, please let us know so that we can, you know, make that a priority as we intentionally create this next year. Like Kabri said, we have some guests planned. Yes. We just have to finalize some of those details. And oh, I think we also have a series of some kind planned. Oh my god. Yes. Like just non-traditional ways.

SPEAKER_04 56:47

Yes, like all the different ways to mother, I think is what I was talking about. Yeah. Yes. So yeah, we were talking about having beginning a series just of like all the different ways to mother or the different ways that motherhood looks. I really want to do that and invite like some different kinds of parents, parenting through adoption, parenting through IVF, parenting through embryo adoption, like all the different ways to become a mother. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

I don't know if we would, I think we had some people in mind already, but if we had, I don't know, for like if people have a story they want to share, absolutely reach out.

SPEAKER_04 57:29

Yep. We will chat about it. Maybe we can make a post about that soon. Yeah. Cool. I like that. I totally forgot about that. And it was a good idea. Yeah. It was like a late night inspiration. Yeah, it was. I was like, the many faces of motherhood or something like that. Yeah. Cool. Okay, well, thanks for listening. Yes. Thank you. Bye.