We Reframe “Enough” And Choose Hope Over Burnout

We speak frankly about collective exhaustion, unexpected weaning, and the pressure to perform through pregnancy and postpartum. The talk turns to meaning, hope, and the small acts that keep us going when the world feels heavy.

• giving up breastfeeding sooner than planned and finding relief in formula
• navigating reflux, diet changes, and goat’s milk trials
• naming the mental load, sleep loss, and work expectations
• redefining enough as belonging more, not having more
• the cost of childcare and the missing village
• comparison during pregnancy and the myth of doing it all
• choosing hope, practicing small kindness, and finding meaning
• building community as the antidote to burnout

Thanks so much for listening and we hope that you feel heard and seen after listening to this episode.

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Transcript

Naming The Exhaustion Of Motherhood

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Welcome back to Heart on the Table. We're feeling pretty exhausted today.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

We are feeling very exhausted. I am so exhausted. And that's what I texted Miranda this week and I said, what if we just talk about I think it started with me saying like something about moms are forgotten. And then it kind of transformed into this we are just collectively exhausted.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

You know, and moms being like the collective exhaustion that goes behind motherhood, especially in our current society. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Yeah. And I think part of that conversation too was just like we're each going through our own thing with you know, postpartum, perinatal, like and the I think we identified like the pressure or the frustration about all of this is that we have to show up in society, that we have to show up at work, that we have to show up and keep showing up to meet those expectations, right? Like, like we don't have anything else going on at home. Yeah. Yes. But really, I feel like, at least for me, the most important role or job that I have is being a mom is being a mom. Like at the end of my life, when maybe someone inscribes something on my tombstone, or I actually don't want to be buried.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

But the idea. But the idea, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Like when someone remembers me, I don't want them for to remember me for any other role than like the nurturing one that I have as a mom.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

That's what I want to be remembered for.

Identity, Legacy, And The Role Of Mom

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Yeah. I definitely kind of wanted to tell a little bit about what has been going on this last week for me. And if you want to share some of like whatever you want to share related to your story too. Because I do think it's quite funny that our last episode was the postpartum episode. And then and in that episode, I was talking about breastfeeding. And I said something about we were talking about Fed is best, you know, like sometimes if you need to give up nursing, breastfeeding, and you just have to do that, like just do that. And I did not foresee that the week following that, like, recording of that episode, I was going to be giving up nursing. So I was like, we should talk about some of that on the podcast. Because I think what's really interesting is that I've always said, like, I can hear you breathing in your microphone. Oh no.

unknown 3:27

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

That's why I was like, I'm gonna monitor so I can just hear this. Like, oh, you can't hear because you don't have it. Okay. Let me swallow my snot. And blow my nose again. Oh. Oh, what's our tissues? Oh, yeah, there are tissues right there. Okay. I just have this snot, just like, oh my god. Great. I think it's a little better.

From Breastfeeding To Formula

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Anyway, snot break. Um, I didn't foresee that I was gonna be having to give up breastfeeding the following week. So, and I actually did have a friend who listens to our podcast here and there who was like, she kind of struggled with nursing at the beginning, and she was like, You should make an episode about this because I feel like nobody really talks about it. And at the time I was like, Yeah, maybe we'll get there. And I think we're here because it's happened to me. Um, you know, I breastfed my daughter for the first two years of her life, and I really loved it, and I was very passionate about nursing, like was definitely an unashamed nurser, we'd be out and about, and I just whoop boob out anywhere and everywhere. And I really thought so many things in relation to my son. I thought that, you know, I wanted to go out with a bang with my son, like he's gonna be my last, and I was hoping to nurse him for just as long. And I know that I do believe that Fed is best, but I will say that I have always, because I really worked at nursing my daughter, that I have held the thought of like you can make it work. Like if you want to nurse, you can make it work until this experience. Um, and now and I I do also hold on to like Fed is best, and however somebody needs to make it work, you should. I think when I when I'm thinking about you need to make it work, it's more targeted targeted at me, you know, like you could make this work. Your own self-expectations. My own self-expectations. I would be able to tell anyone, my clients, anyone else, like, do what's best for you. But like me, I'm like, but I can do it. So with my son, he was in the NICU, very easy to actually start nursing him. He took, he latched really well from the beginning, which I was very impressed by. Everyone was actually kind of surprised, like, dang, like for a little teeny tiny baby, he's doing really well with nursing. And I was so happy about that because I was I was telling everyone at the hospital, like, I nursed my daughter for two years, I want to nurse my son for just as long. My son has always seemingly had a little bit of a sensitive stomach, we think. I don't even know for sure. I'm like, I have no idea. But the past like week, couple of weeks, I would say, we've just actually, my mother-in-law from the very beginning used to say, every time I feed him, it's like I'm feeding him razor blades. She was like, I'll feed him. And then he's just arching and like screaming and rutching, and but I was like, okay, like I don't know what to do about that, you know? And she told my husband, she was like, maybe she should try a bland diet. And Tori was like, Yeah, I'm gonna tell my exhausted postpartum wife to just to eat chicken and rice. Like, we're not doing that. Um, and I had considered it, but mostly let it roll off my shoulders. Until the last couple of weeks, it's been really bad. His crying, his screaming in the middle of the night, it's just been so bad. And I with my daughter, I really liked nursing her to sleep and nursing through the night, like because it helped me get sleep. That's why I did that. With my son, he does not settle. Like I would nurse him to sleep, and then he would just, you could just tell he's frustrated, like he's not settled. And then all through the night, like every couple of every hour. I'm like every hour or so, he was waking up to, and I would give him a boob, but he would pull off and just be so frustrated. And this continued for the past couple of weeks until my husband was like, I just think that we should try a formula. There's something that is obviously not working for him with your milk. I tried a dairy-free diet. I thought it was helping until I I didn't. Like, and also it's just hard to be dairy-free. Like, it's just it's very hard to be consistently dairy-free. It really is. Especially when you're not knowing for sure if this is the answer. Like, it's just difficult.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Okay.

Reflux, Diet Shifts, And Goat’s Milk

SPEAKER_01 8:01

So we tried the dairy-free thing. We also have him on like a reflex medication that we were like, I think this is helping, but then we were like, we don't know, you know? So we put him on formula, and the idea at the beginning was like, let's just put him on formula, let's kind of see if this helps. I'll keep pumping and kind of like we'll just kind of adjust from there. First day on formula, I felt like he was doing really well. I was like, it's different. Like we notice a difference almost immediately. Like he's sleeping, he's resting, he's not freaking out after eating. And then a day or two later, it started to change again, where all of a sudden he was like freaking out again. So throughout last week, it was last week where we're still on the formula, he's crying, he's up all night long, and like we got him back. We kind of haven't been the best at making sure we've been like consistent on the reflux medication. So Tori was like, we need to be consistent on the reflux meds, and we need to be making sure that we're like giving him the formula, like, because I think I nursed him one night because I was just desperate. Like Tori's like, we're never gonna know if we don't just do one thing, you know. But last week nothing was working. I was just like, we thought the formula was maybe helping for like two days, and then last week was horrible. He was up all night. I had work the next morning, like it was just a freaking nightmare. Until Friday we decided to try goat's milk formula, and I feel like the goat's milk has been helpful, I think, so far. It seems so good. Anyway, all this to say, like the weaning before you wanted to, and just giving yourself grace and me giving myself grace. Like, there's a reason as to why there are so many different ways to feed a baby. And I'm thinking about like in the old days where there wasn't, you know, like how would you feed your baby if there wasn't all these different options to be able to do so? Like, I feel very fortunate that there are. And for my mental health, I just decided like we just need to stop nursing because the back and forth, the pumping, like, I do feel some level of relief in being able to just not have to think about it and have to worry about if we have enough milk for my next work day and all of that.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Yeah, yeah, it just kind of takes the weight off the mental load.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

It does, it sucks, but the reason as to why is because it's not easy for like lactating moms to have the freedom to just be able to solely focus on making it work in our society, you know, like coming back to what we kind of said in just both of us recognizing our exhaustion, it's the ways as to which like it's not necessarily the nursing, it's not really even the baby, it's all of the other ways that like I have to continue to show up in my life. I work, I enjoy my job, I enjoy being present for my clients, but like the nights where I wasn't getting sleep and I had to work the next day, I was just sitting there full of dread. Full of dread, full of like, how am I gonna show up and be emotionally present with people tomorrow when like I'm not even getting sleep? You know, and then the days where it's like, okay, we're finally at the weekend, I wouldn't be sitting up in the middle of the night with dread. Like I was able to just be more present with my son and you know, hold him and comfort him. And you know, some people say, like, oh, just put him in the crib, just let him cry, like get your sleep. I just can't do it. If you can do it, by all means do it. I just can't do it. I can't, because I know he's hurting. I know he's hurting, I know he wants comfort, but it's like it's the pressure of like, it's not the baby, it's not nursing, it's the fact that like here in the West, but primarily in America, in the United States, we don't have, we don't have any protected leave or anything that's consistent for moms to be able to just focus on being a mom after having a baby. And I think like, you know, this time postpartum, I run my own business. Like, there's a little bit more on my shoulders in terms of responsibility, I would say, more so than the last postpartum experience. I had like six months paid maternity leave, and you know, I was able to kind of like hunker down a little more and focus on getting my feet under me when it comes to like new mom hood. But like, I don't know. This time I just don't, it's different, and I just need to also be able to protect my mental health and my peace in order to show up in all the different realms of my life, but particularly for my son.

Mental Load, Work, And Sleep Deprivation

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yeah, yeah, and I think that plays into maybe what we'll get into a little bit, but like the world needs a little bit more mothering. Yes, in general, nurturing, nurturing, and I would say I was going through I don't know if the they're not similar experiences, but I think they're similar in like essence or nature of just the fact that this last couple weeks I've really been feeling that as a pregnant mom, like I am expected to continue to show up as if I wasn't pregnant, as if I wasn't a mom. Yeah. And just how I think hurtful that has been the last couple weeks, because here I am doing my best in all capacities and in every way, and I'm told it's not good enough. Mm-hmm. Like society tells me it's not good enough, right? Like, and it's just really it's been a whole different experience, I think, this second time around than the first time around, because the first time it was all new, and like I was just happy to to be going through it, and this time I don't feel like I'm really able to soak in it or enjoy it or give it the appreciation and the attention that I want to. Yeah. Because so much is still being asked of me. It's like, well, like just because you're pregnant again doesn't mean you you still have to show up. Like I'm still showing up. I'm just showing up in a lesser capacity because I have all of these other things that I'm trying to be good at. Yep. Like I'm I'm not trying to give my 100% here during these times of day, during this time of week. Like I just don't have my 100% ticket. My 100% probably looks less than other people that aren't moms and that aren't pregnant. Like, I think that's the big thing too, is there's I feel a lot of comparison this time around with other people that it's like you're not you're not doing enough, you're not doing as well as they are. And I'm like, yes, but they're also not a mom. They're also not pregnant, and they have also not been through what I've been through. I know that they've been through hard things too, but like just the lack of I think empathy and compass and understanding and compassion and just humanness that I think shows up in today's world, especially given the pressures that everybody's under. It just it I wanna think about this all the time, like this wanting to stay awake. That's almost I don't know how else to describe it, but like I want to stay awake. I don't want to pull the blindfold or the veil over my eyes, you know? I want to stay awake, and it's so hard when I feel like, especially when that reach for the blindfold is getting so much closer. Like people are trying to pull the blindfold over my eyes. I'm like, no, this isn't where we're going with this. This isn't, I keep telling myself, stay awake. Like stay close to the fire is another like term I use usually call it, like stay close to life, stay close to the fire. It hurts, it's alive, right? Like, especially in like my home life, I have conversations with my husband all the time about how we hold our feet to the fire, how we like stay close to the fire, right? Because that's I don't know, I'm sure there's like some primord like primordial image or whatever that comes with staying close to the fire, right? You you're safe by the fire, like it's warm, it's how you stay alive. And I guess I just I'm carrying that symbolism throughout all aspects of my life where I feel like society or culture is asking me to to go to sleep. And don't care about these things, yeah, stay numb. I don't want to be numb as much as things hurt. Like I know, I want to be, I want to feel it. Yeah. I want to feel all of it. And so I think part of just like the conversation that Bree and I have had the last couple weeks is just the exhaustion and the overwhelm that comes with all of this, right? I've also noticed it showing up for a lot of people in my life. Like my husband and I have conversations about all the time. We actually went to like a chiropractor appointment this last week, and it was funny because we spend 30 minutes of our drive home talking to each other because we leave work at the same time. And you know, it's usually the same questions like, How are you doing? How was your day? How are you feeling? What's going on? And it's really our that's the time that we use to kind of unpack our day before we get home and then get to be present with our baby. Yeah. But we ended up like meeting up at this chiropractor appointment that we had. And we were just continuing on the theme of like we're exhausted. What even is the point of this exhaustion, right? Like we were talking about how we spend 40, 60 hours a week working to barely be able to, you know, live, to barely be able to pay for groceries, to barely be able to pay the bills. And for what?

SPEAKER_01 17:54

For what?

Pregnancy, Expectations, And Comparison

SPEAKER_02 17:55

For what? We come back to that question all the time. Like, is this the point? Is this the point of life? I feel like I'm gonna get to the end of my life and I'm gonna say, wait. Yeah, what was that? Like, no, I wanna redo, like, and I don't want I don't want to live my life thinking that, you know, I don't want to get to the end of my life and say, wait, that was it, that's all I got, and what did I do with it? Yeah. Um I think about that a lot too. Yeah, that was our conversation earlier this week. So when we got to the chiropractor appointment, and I don't know how it came up, but that like our chiropractor was also feeling the same way. Is this just some like common theme that we're all feeling that maybe nobody is talking about? Yeah. So thought it might be important to talk about today. The the just the never enough feeling. Yes. And when is it enough? You know, redefining what is enough, and also I think we're gonna get into it a little bit later, but like enough is enough.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Yeah. I feel like coming back to like the motherhood thing too, like, I just don't understand how we live in our society that likes to say how it supports moms and it loves children, and children are like the fabric of society, and yet like we don't support moms or mothers, you know, like there's nothing here in the United States that is really supportive of moms, like we lack a sense of community, we're all very like disjointed from one another. Child care costs are exorbitant. Is that the word I want to use? They're large, yeah, they're huge, you know? And I'm fortunate, I feel very fortunate that like I have help from my in-laws, but many people do not, you know, like and sometimes I even have some regret that like it's my mother-in-law who helps us. You know, I likes to help us, she loves watching our kids. But sometimes I'm just like, how nice would it be if this was something that was just equally accessible for all moms to be able to have somewhere to even like to drop off their kids where their kids could just go play? And it wasn't a ridiculous cost, you know, because like I think that moms also like deserve a little bit of time to themselves, even if you don't work out in like the labor world.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

What was the Instagram post that you sent me the other day that was like they can't figure out how to it was a Facebook one, hang on says motherhood is not less valuable just because the world cannot monetize it.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Yeah, motherhood is not less valuable just because the world cannot monetize it.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

And that's truly why it's such like why there is no support is because you can't monetize it.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah, yep. In a capitalist society. And you know what? Like, it is hard being a working mom, but it is, I think it is equally hard for the moms who are momming all day. Sometimes I drop my kids off and I go, Oh, thank God. Like I can go re like hit the reset button for a couple hours with my clients and then go back home. Yeah. We all deserve a little bit of a break, and that's just not accessible in the country that we live in. And there's, you know, there's I hear like here and there about pushes to make those things more accessible, but like in many ways, our country is not going in the right direction right now.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yeah, I was just thinking, I've often thought that too. Like, it's incredibly hard to be a working mom. I do spend a lot of my day worrying, not worrying, but like wondering about my baby, even though I know he's being taken care of by my family. I do spend a lot of time wishing that I was there and wishing that I wasn't missing out. And then I have days like yesterday um where I it was just one day. I don't even know that it was a full day either, but like I was kind of solo watching him. He's two and a half, and but I was also trying to get stuff done. Like I was trying to do laundry, I was trying to make postpartum meals. Yeah. This postpartum meal was the most helpful meal my first go-around was breakfast burritos. And I was trying to make a big batch of them. I only made 20 burritos, which means that's only good for 10 days if my husband and I both have a burrito every morning. So we will be doing this again. But it was so challenging to to, you know, super supervise him, like watch him. The TV was on, which I feel guilty about. Right. And you know, get away from the mom guilt either. Yep. And prepping, you know. Of the peppers and the potatoes and the eggs and the stuff sat on my counter for hours. Like I'm I was like, I sure hope this food is still good. Like I haven't taken my food hammer's permit in a long time, but it took all damn day. Totally. And it took like my husband coming in to help me at night. We didn't finish until like 9 p.m. I started this at like one. Like and so the pressure for stay-at-home moms too to care for their child, multiple children, and still get all the housework done is impossible.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

It's impossible.

Capitalism, Childcare, And “Enough”

SPEAKER_02 23:25

It's impossible. And I felt too like I was a little fried by the end of the day. Like my my again, I'm also like 28 weeks along, I think. So my body was just so sore. Like sure, so tired. I when I was sitting there prepping the burritos at like 8:30 with my husband and took us like a half hour, but like I told my son, my heels kind of feel like they're nailed to the floor. Like my feet hurt so bad. But yeah, that's also impossible. And like having some semblance of a balance, like we truly don't have the support, the village that we need. Everybody needs, everybody deserves a village.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

They truly do.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Because how else do you make it work?

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

I mean, you do make it work, but like you deserve more than that.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

You make it work, but we all like that's again speaking to like getting to the end of your life and feeling like wait, is that like, is it just about making it work? I feel like every day it's just like we're just making it work, you know, like we're just getting by. And it seemed like you said something earlier when we were just chatting about how like the bar keeps moving. You know, I feel like the great lie that we've all been sold, and a lot of people will just say, Oh, it's just millennials just like complaining again, right? About how they have it so hard. But like statistically, we can see how like the bar keeps moving and how in so many ways, like things today are so much more inaccessible than they were for the generations that came before us. You know, like I don't know. It's just it just feels like me and my husband talk a lot about how like we're we make a good income, both of us, right? Like on paper. We make what I would like, I don't know, 15 years ago when I was like 16, I would have been like, dang, like that's a good income. Like we'll be, we'll have a nice house, we'll have like we'll have all these, like we'll be able to, we'll be living very comfortably. It doesn't feel that way, you know? Yeah, it just feels like so many things are out of reach. And speaking to like the whole, we're kind of coming to like the enough is enough piece. Like, I feel, you know, we're both social workers, and I just feel like as a social worker, I can't look away from some of the things that are happening in our society right now. And I think that like that has also very much contributed to how I've been feeling, even if it's just playing in the background, you know, like I try to stay off my phone, I try not to consume media, like I try to limit it. But I'm like, I also recognize that there's a lot of privilege in being able to just look away. And while I do think it's important to protect some semblance of peace in our brains, I think things are getting to the point where I just can't ignore them anymore. Like I just can't keep looking away. Like, I don't really know what to do about that. But I just know that trying to like raise little children in the current climate that we live in is exhausting. Like I'm trying to also protect my daughter from and my son from like the ways just like the darkness that we are living in right now.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Yeah, yeah. I think going back to what you referring to it as the darkness and wanting to protect your little ones from it, like I feel like again, this has probably come up before, but there is a part of me, I guess it's the collective conscious part of me, maybe, that feels like it wants one of those really good stories. Like one of the one of like the Lord of the Rings stories or the Star Wars stories, or one of the stories where there is a lot of darkness and there is a lot of pain and they still come out on top, you know, at the end of the story. If there are some really good speeches, I actually want to read that one, so hey. Do it. Let me pull it up. Okay. This is just from Reddit, so I hope that this is like word for word what the actual um lines are. But it says it's it's Sam Sam Wisem's speech in Lord of the Rings that I feel like I keep coming back to. And he says it's all wrong. By rights we shouldn't even be here, but we are. It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo, the ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass, a new day will come. And when the sun shines, it will shine out clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you that meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now, folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't, because they were holding on to something. And Frodo says, What are we holding on to, Sam? And Sam says that there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for. And every time I know, every time I come across that speech, usually on Instagram, I'm like, I sit and I watch the whole thing, and I watch it over and over and over, and then I probably cry some about it, but like Yeah, it's gonna get me going right now. Need those. I know. Good and you know good stories to give you hope.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

In all of this, like talking about exhaustion and talking about like I'm like furiously knitting.

Hope, Stories, And The Negativity Bias

SPEAKER_00 29:02

I'm like Yep. I just yeah, this is coming up for me.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

I think in talking about exhaustion and and talking about how hopeless everything feels right now, I think it's also incredibly important to talk about hope and the importance of it and holding on to it. It it's baffling to me that like I think what's crazy when we really think about it, like I'm thinking about when I was a little kid sitting in history class and learning about like World War II and the Holocaust and all of that. That was not that long ago. And I feel like as a society, we sometimes act like this was something that was so long ago. You know, like the pictures were black and white, like it feels like it was hundreds of years ago. That was in 1940s, you know, like that was not a long time ago, that wasn't even a hundred years ago. So it's like I say that to remember that like things are very cyclical, like we talk about on this podcast all the time. And you know, I don't really know what that means because like when we're in this part of the cycle, this is very damning. And it's not solely a United States issue, like the rise of um nationalism is uh worldwide right now. We're seeing that as a trend. You know, we have the things that are happening in Palestine that are also atrocious. This is not just a United States issue, but I think that like I try to remember to like hold on to the little things that are so that feel so ordinary in the day-to-day. You know that girl that went viral on TikTok with that song that I sent you? The hand. Okay, hold on a second. Because it's been a minute since I've been on TikTok. Not me. I need to probably reel it in a little bit today for my mental health. Let me see if I can find the words to this song real quick. Let's see. So she has this song, and it's good things. This is a different song, but I really love it and I've been listening to it a lot lately. And there's a lyric in there that she says, What is it everyone says? Nice words we're first to forget. Good things aren't waiting around. We've got to chase them down. And I feel like there's so much good in the day-to-day, but it is in the ordinary. Like nice words, we're first to forget them. But like the things that people are talking about that are mean, or the it like it activates. This is actually science-based. Um, I forget it's the negativity bias where our brain is first, like the first thing it remembers and really holds on to are the things that activate our nervous system into like a survival, right? Or like make us uncomfortable. The little like good moments in the day-to-day don't do that, which is why it's important to chase them down and to try and like connect to those things. I'm thinking, like, I remember there was a day I was like in the crosswalk, or I was like at a light stoplight with my kids in the car, and there was this cute little, like, I think it was just like a cute little old lady, like crossing the street. And I looked to the right, and the guy in his car was also just like pointing at her and like laughing, like in a cute way. Like, look at her, like she's cute. And I remember thinking to myself, like, this is one of those moments where it's like humans just like laughing together and like looking at this cute little lady like crossing the street. And I was like, this is one of those moments where it's like I have to remember that like humans mostly are good. I do believe that, but it's like it's so clouded by all of the darkness and the garbage that it we see that makes it to our TikTok feeds. Like, we're often not seeing like, is he okay?

SPEAKER_02 33:06

I've got another quote, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Oh yeah. We're often not seeing like I don't know, just the good in the day-to-day. So I don't know. I think that like continuing to connect to hope, continuing to I saw both of us just keeping like I saw I was gonna pull something up too.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

I wonder if I can find it. I saw it this morning. Let me see here.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

I feel like it was I know I keep getting um I keep getting distracted by everything else on my feed right now.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Did you see this?

SPEAKER_01 33:38

This is where that five-year-old is today. Okay, I'm gonna show you this really quickly. Okay, but it's not like we're not-I'm not gonna put this on the podcast, but I did want to show this to you. Look at this. They said that they're holding a demonstration, but it sounds like crying and screaming. This is where that little five-year-old boy is. But apparently now CNN is reporting that they're holding a demonstration in there. I don't know. I know, right? I don't know. Weird. Man, there was a cute thing that I saw this morning that was just like what to do in these times, right? Times like these, and it was just a heavy emphasis on like connecting to community and creating art and dancing to the music and just sticking together really with the people who feel good and have your back.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

And yeah, I have one thing here was how can we focus on shit? Sorry. You're fine. No, you're fine, you're good. Enough isn't about having more, but maybe it's about belonging more.

Small Acts, Meaning, And Community

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Yeah. Which that I was gonna say when you said earlier redefining what enough is. And I feel like we very much have to like pull ourselves out of the capitalist cog and really engage back into our own life, which is really it is difficult to do so when so much of our like uh living day to day depends on like we have to make money, we have to like, however, I also think it's important to realize there's a lot of people that are continuing to live. Maybe they're unhoused, they're still alive, they are still finding community, right? Like, there's such a like emphasis in our society of looking at people who are unhoused as like they're living on the outskirts or they're living on the fringe, or they have mental health issues, or drug addictions, like that's not every one of them, you know. Like, some of them are just choosing, choosing to do so. Like, so I just say that to say that like it is possible to pull back a little bit to maybe reevaluate what our needs are versus what our wants are. The fact that we have to do any of this is fucking stupid and unfair. But I do think that like us taking, like, just coming back to our own lives and diff like figuring out in our day-to-day what we can do to us, like what we can do that matters, versus like living for the machine is important.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

There was something else that I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

I've often Okay, I think we all know at this point that I operate in terms of stories. Yeah. I will come back to this Lord of the Ring quote in a minute. Because the Lord of the Ring quote I was trying to find was something about how the darkness of Mordor went unnoticed for so long. Like just by the everyday, I don't know, ignoring those good moments that you were talking about chasing. I'll come back to that and see if I can find it. But the place that my mind went now was like I've been thinking a lot about The Matrix. I've only seen The Matrix like once. Same as an adolescent. Like, I don't remember the story that well. I remember the premise of the story. Uh-huh. But I do think there's a video that I've seen. It's got Keanu Reeves in it. So I'm assuming it's The Matrix. Maybe it's John Wick. I don't really know. I can't really tell you. But he's talking to, I think it's The Matrix because he's talking to the seer. You gather as much from this short clip, right? Like that the woman he's talking to is a seer. And the seer offers him like a like a lollipop or something, and she's like, Do you want this? And he was like, Why, what's the point? You already know if I'm gonna take it or not. And she's like, Yeah, that's not the point. The point is for you to figure out why. Yeah. Why? Yeah. And I think, you know, going back to the we were talking earlier about all of the apocalyptic thoughts that we tend to have when things get hard. Yes. And we tend to like think about, you know, your mind wants to run with the how do I escape this, right? Like, how do I what's plan B? And we always talk about our plan B as like, you know, moving to a place where we feel like we have a better work-life balance or we have a better supportive society. Yeah. And then I think the other like argument to that is like, well, if we leave, we're never coming back because there's no way we can make this ever work again. And then it gets you thinking, like, I mean, yeah, so if we can't come back, what's there to come back to? What's there to come back to? Like, why would we come back if it's this hard? Like, that's just like the thought process again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Yeah. I just know that like I know today isn't necessarily what we like, you know, today's a little different than like what we kind of started the podcast about. And me and Miranda have been talking about that a lot lately, how like we're just doing whatever we want to do a little bit more. And I just feel good about that. And I said to her this morning when we walked in, I was like, I just don't think that I can like talk about I just don't think I can just act like things aren't really bad.

unknown 39:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

I don't think I can just go in today and just tit chat and be lighthearted. And I just feel I the reason why I became a social worker is because so much of what is going on right now and wanting to, I don't know, like be a part of it or be an advocate, like, is what led me into this field that I'm in. And I want to be doing more, and I don't know what more looks like, and I just it's back to never enough. Like I feel that in terms of the situation that's going on right now, like I would like to be doing more, but I don't even know what more is. I think just like speaking to how I'm feeling or putting words to that is a part of this, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

People I think need going back to like the whole AI thing, people need your authentic voice. Yeah, you know, people need to hear what you have to say. People don't need to hear what another robot says about something we're all going through. Like this is a place for everyone to show up as they are, and I think what you are looking for will also find you. Right. I've been I kind of been playing a couple of different things on my mind lately. Like what you seek is also seeking you, and your community will find you. And yeah, I mean, things are supposed to change and evolve, and I do think that our original purpose for this podcast has changed. But if this is what we can do is more, I mean it's just the two of us here right now recording, but I mean, right we'll listen to it, right? Like, yeah, and who knows, maybe it'll gain momentum and become a place for people to feel seen and heard and shared. I think that was the whole premise of this podcast. Um that was the point. Yeah, I think I know I think I found what I was looking for. Maybe maybe, maybe not. I think what I was looking for, we recently watched the Hobbit films, and I have like not ever seen them all in total they're long.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

We watched these. They're so long. I'm gonna tell you what. Y'all need to make movies shorter. I don't have time. I know. It took us a while to finish one. Make it an hour and a half, put it an hour and a half is long enough. Yeah, it's they're long. They're long. That's why I've never finished them. I will one day. Because I did actually enjoy, I think I've seen the first and second Lord of the Rings. And I maybe I have also two seen The Hobbit. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

Yeah. I think what I was looking for was there was some we were doing our lore research after some of the movies, and I think what I came across was like a an explanation as to how the darkness grew for so long, going unnoticed, you know, and like that is the premise of I think what's happening. But the only quote that I can find that's remotely, I guess, similar, but on the other end of the on the other side of the coin is when Gandalf says, I've found it is the very small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay, small acts of kindness and love.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

That's when he explains to Gal Galadriel that he believes small things rather than great power are what truly hold evil in check. I think that's parallel to when Samwise Gamji says, But in the end it's only a passing thing, this shadow and even in darkness must pass. I don't know that that was exactly what I was trying to find.

Closing Reflections And What’s Next

SPEAKER_01 42:34

No, but I love that. I like that is just speaking to through this time, connecting to the good is important. And you know, connecting to meaning. All of this makes me want to go back and read Viktor Frankel's And Search for Meaning again because that book is incredible and really talks about finding the purpose and finding the meaning through difficult times. And I think like that is what it is about is connecting to your why and your purpose and your meaning and holding on to that throughout times such as these. And the person who lost their life yesterday, I there was one video that I saw of him, and it reaffirmed to me that like he knew the risk. Like he knew the risk, he knew what was happening, and he went down fighting. And I think that was for like him fighting for the greater good. And I just feel like we are in a time where fight the good fight is important to keep at the forefront of our mind.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Yeah, and I think a big part of that too is finding people who are your people, you know, who you can share your fears with, who you can be vulnerable with, because that's truly what we need. Like we need more vulnerability, we need more compassion, we need more empathy and understanding. Yep. And there were a couple of times in the last week where I caught myself thinking, like, well, that's it. I give up on my on my dream. But then, you know, I had my support system, which I'm so grateful for. I had people I could reach out to who could be the other stronger, louder voice in my head that tells me to keep going.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Yep. Mm-hmm. How do you feel about ending here? Is there anything else we wanted to tie into?

SPEAKER_02 44:37

I'm sure we could talk for forever.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

I know. That's how I feel. I feel like this was just a very chatty episode. I think the next episode we will be having my nurse from my birth come interview with us. Us, nurse turn friend. I love her. So look forward to that. And we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

Yeah. Thanks so much for listening and we hope that you feel heard and seen as well.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Stay positive out there. Bye.