PART TWO: The Connection Between A Nurse And A Mom After Birth Trauma feat. RN Lindsay Coultas

Birth rarely follows a script, and when the ground drops out—hemorrhage, magnesium fog, sky-high blood pressure, and a baby in the NICU—the moments that matter most are often quiet, stubborn, and human. We walk through that storm together: the nurse who trusted her gut when “gushes” were waved off, the choice to validate fear instead of minimizing it, and the push to wheel a shaky new mom to finally meet her baby. That single act becomes a hinge in the story, turning dread toward attachment and grief toward meaning.

We open up the raw reality of postpartum trauma—palpitations, doom feelings, trembling hands—and name what culture too often erases. No “at least.” No gold stars for staying silent. You’ll hear the “emo talk” every NICU parent deserves: this is loss, and loss needs time, language, and permission. From there, we ground into what helps. Practical advocacy when something feels wrong. Magnesium side effects decoded. How to navigate NICU rules without losing your voice. Why early bonding isn’t a luxury but the neurological foundation of trust, especially for boys who may lag in emotional development. We challenge the “don’t spoil the baby” myth with attachment science and lived experience.

You’ll also get a simple blueprint for support: assign real partner jobs, create a post-birth boundary script, and choose affirmations that feel true enough to hold—my body will heal, I can ask for help, this bond grows daily. Whether your NICU stay was three weeks or three months, pain doesn’t grade on a curve; your story stands on its own. If you’re navigating those first days—the hardest days—this conversation offers steadiness, language, and light. If it resonates, subscribe, share with someone who needs it, and leave a review to help more parents find their footing.

If this episode spoke to you, subscribe and leave a review so other listeners can find Heart on the Table. New episodes land every other Monday.

Join the conversation on Instagram @heartonthetablepod

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:52

I just had a patient who was coming back just to visit their baby who was still at the hospital. Yeah. And she said, I've been having some gushes and is that okay? And I asked her the normal questions, Are you soaking a pet in an hour? And she's like, not really, but it's really big gushes. It's like almost. And one of the OBs met her in the big elevator. She showed her pictures of the pads. And she's like, Oh, I think you're fine. I had talked to the nurse who was escorting her down. And I was like, I don't think this is okay. I think she needs to go to the ER. And she trusted her own gut as well that said get her checked out. And it turns out she had some retained product.

unknown 1:52

Oh my gosh.

The Gut Check That Saved A Patient

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Crazy. And more nurses need to listen because there are there's actually one problem that can happen. And I don't want to say the wrong thing, but I think it's a a placental PE, or it's basically a PE caused by birth products. And it might be an amniotic PE. I can't remember. What does PE stand for? An embolism. And they'll say, I feel like I'm going to die. And they you can't they can't explain why. And it and but that is the sensation that almost every person that I've heard stories that they did find when it they said, I felt like I was going to die. Or the patient stated, I feel like I'm going to die.

Panic, Blood Pressure, And Postpartum Doom

SPEAKER_03 2:43

One of the symptoms for pre-clampsia, too, was just like feel a feeling of perpetual doom. I saw on one website. And I was like, that's interesting. I remember when I was after giving birth, like I remember being in the hospital one night when things were supposed to be feeling better and just feeling my heart beating out of my goddamn chest. And I couldn't sleep because I felt that like doom feeling where I was just like, I don't feel right. Was that before he was born? After. That was after he was born. Don't know when, but it was one of the I think it may have been the night before the Monday where I had to be put back on magnesium and my blood pressure was at like 190 or something. But I remember that night. Like, do I normally feel my heart like beating? Can I normally hear it? Here's my next question. What do you remember, if anything, about my birth or my postpartum experience and how you supported me? Alright, were you ready for the tears?

On Magnesium And Feeling Like Garbage

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yeah. Okay. Um, when I had you, you were on MAG. I think it was still the first round. Mag makes you feel like garbage. It makes you feel kind of lightheaded and dizzy. It puts you into this foggy brain. It's meant to decrease your muscle. It's like a muscle relaxant. So it's meant to like make you feel weak, right? Because we're trying to avoid the seizure. And so that's why we put you on this muscle relaxant. And you were already feeling like garbage when I got you. And you I totally forget sometimes that you even had a C-section because my focus was on she's on Meg, she feels like garbage. And I found out that you had not seen your baby yet, and I kept pushing you all day. Yeah. I'm like, we should go see your baby. We should go see your baby. And you were like, I'm not ready. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. And then I'd come in and check on you again, and you'd be like, Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good. And I'm like, Well, let's go see your baby then. And she was like, No, I don't think I'm ready. And at some point I got kind of aggressive about it. Cause I think I talked to your husband at some point too, and he's like, She is very anxious. And I was like, Oh, I get that because I have a lot of anxiety, and my firstborn is also an extremely anxious person. So I got a little more aggressive because you're anxious. I was like, you need to go see your baby, you need it, you need this to feel better about the situation, and I don't know why I was so pushy about it. Maybe it's I also think I'm an empath. And I think I feel people's emotions a lot. Yeah. And I do sometimes think that I have one of the voyant, the Claire's.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Uh-huh. What Claire, I don't know. Sure. I agree. I'm the same way. Yeah. But I just really felt like you needed to go see your baby. And so I kind of stuck with that. I was like, I know she feels like garbage. And I don't push most moms on Meg to do a lot. In fact, I'm very lenient about it. And I'm just like, she needs to go see her baby. Yeah. And you did. You finally agreed. Yeah. We got you in a wheelchair. It was quite a to-do. Because it was the lines, and there's that physical weakness and just making sure you're not like screwing things up.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

And I kept getting so lightheaded every day. I would sit up. That's why I kept being like, I can't get down. But I was also emotionally struggling. Yes.

Pushing To Meet The Baby

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yep. Yes. And you know, it's wild because like somebody who is dizzy, I do not usually push them to get up and go do anything. Because that's more work for me. Totally. Like I gotta get two people to come. And I so I'm hoping that somebody's even available to help me get you into a wheelchair. I don't even remember who we used. Did we use Tori? I haven't fucking idea. I was still really out of it when we finally made it out of the room. And then on top of that, because Nick U doesn't want the liability of them as a patient in there, they cannot be left alone. Yeah. So I had to like make sure I had the time to sit there and not have to go do anything else too. But I so it's weird that I pushed for this so hard. But I did. And I remember your blood pressures were iffy. I remember thinking, I'm so glad that I have her because most of our nurses don't deal with, they haven't had to deal with the blood pressure protocols. They haven't had to deal with hemorrhages. When I got report on you, you were a hot mess. And I was like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

It's funny because I don't even think I I know how like because I think the back end of the notes seemed to be because I remember that Monday, Stephanie, she's a she was one of the cute, uh not Stephanie, it was a different girl. Samantha. They were together, they were together that day. But I remember Samantha said, like, I keep reading your notes, trying to figure out like, how did we get here, girl? Like, and she was insinuating that, like, holy shit.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah. Yep. Cause you had hemorrhaged. You were on mag before and you were on mag after. Yep. And your baby ended up in the NICU. Like, you are what we call a hot math patient. Yeah. So I like you, and most of our nurses on postpartum have not had to deal with a lot of hemorrhages either. And so I was like, but I've had to deal with all of those from my time in Alaska.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

And so I was like, well, I'm glad that I've got her. And I don't even remember, I think you were my only patient that day because you were. I remember you telling me that.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

I think you told me, like, you're my only patient today.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Yeah. And I think it was because you were such a mess.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

I can feel my body absolutely having like a trauma response, even talking about all of this. Which I think is just like so like how just we speak and I speak all the time about how trauma lives in our body. Like, I can feel myself just like shaking. And I'm like, what is my heart rate?

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Because I'm like, I can just feel it. Ugh, you're making me cry. I don't remember a lot about the conversations that we had. Yeah. But I do remember, like we, I feel like we joked around a little bit. I think we did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

And I think Tori also got on board with that. Yeah. Quickly too.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Yeah. I think I did give him a little bit of a hard time about some stuff. Yes. And then later I found out like he probably didn't deserve it. But he can take it.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Yes. Because I remember when you came in the second time, I think he then gave you shit. And he was like, Yeah, great. She's back. And you were like, wait. And he was like, I'm just fucking with you.

Lightheaded, Weak, And Determined

SPEAKER_00 10:48

For a minute, I was like, oh dang. I thought we got along great. Yeah. And then, but I remember actually Tori, he came out at some point and he's like, she hasn't seen her baby yet. And it's been almost 24 hours. Yeah. And I really think that she would benefit from it. And I think that's part of why. Like, I'm a very literal person sometimes. And so he I was like, this is my mission in life. I will do nothing.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

But I will get her down to see her baby.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

And so you can have him to think, but yeah, he told me one time and I was just like set in stone. I was like, this has to happen. Yes. Despite all of the things going on. And I did need it. You did need it.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Like I did, oh, it sucks. Yeah. And you know, I still look at Grayson and just like, I think I will always be grieving that like that was the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

For us. Yes. You know, I will always grieve that.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

I see when he told me you hadn't seen that baby and that he thought you would benefit from it, and that you're also very anxious, right? All of those things, I was like, oh, I can relate. I can relate to her. And on top of that, I thought I need to make sure that this does not affect her bond with this baby. Because I, with my first one, I look back on it now, and I thought, I feel like my bond with him is strained because of the postpartum depression that I was going through.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

That was so bad. And I wonder how things would have been different. And I thought, man, if she's got anxiety and she's got this extremely traumatic birth experience, I've got to do everything that I can in my powers to make sure that this does not affect her bond. And I will drag her from her bed if I have to.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

I remember you so persistent. Hold that baby. Like I'm with you. It's like I want to go see this baby, but like I was like, fuck, like I do not feel good. But it was it I needed to go down there. Like I remember that I just kept watching the clock pass and just being so like, how could this be? You know, like I haven't even been down there to see him. Yeah. It just really sucked. Yeah. And then I remember Monday came around and I thought I was fucking dying. Like when my blood pressure spiked back up. And who's there's like the older doctor who's like an on-call doctor?

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Dr. Lake.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

Yes. Yeah. He was so sweet on Monday. Is he he's a bigger one? He looks like tall, older. Yeah, definitely. Because we do have two older ones, but it was Dr. Lake. Because I remember he was there when I was admitted, and he was there that Monday. I mean, everybody was there that Monday when my blood pressure spiked all the way back up. Everybody was all of a sudden in my room.

“Hot Mess” Chart And Hemorrhage Protocols

SPEAKER_00 14:08

I had her at first on that Monday. But because she was gonna end up going back on MAG, you became a one-to-one again. Yep. And they couldn't spare me. So you got put with labor nurses.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Yeah, and they were amazing. I loved both of them too. Like they were so awesome. Yeah. Stephanie, she was awesome. Yeah. But I remember Dr. Lake, he like came into my room and I looked at him and I was like, Am I getting out of this hospital? And he grabbed my face and he was like, You're gonna be okay. He was like, that was such a tender moment from like, I just needed that. And he just looked me right in the eyes and he was like, You're gonna be okay. But it was just man, it was crazy. It was crazy. Yeah. Anyway, something that I put on here, this is gonna be like a two-parter episode, I think. I think we can release it. Like, you're crying, you're crying, we're all crying. I think that we'll probably release like the first half of this, and maybe I'll try and edit the first half by this Monday. One thing that I remember that really meant a lot to me when you came into my room that first day and you were leaving, and you put the affirmations on my board. That meant so much to me. And it was in that moment that I like that was when I felt like so connected to you because I was just like, I just needed that. And I remember one of them was like, My body will heal, and you made me do it because as a therapist, I'm like, Yes, affirmations. And then as an individual, I'm like, stupid. Don't let my clients hear that maybe y'all. It's you know, I tell all my therapist clients, like, listen, we are humans too. Okay, like I know these things work, and so when you put them on my board, you made me think of some. You were like, What are some affirmations? Like, what can we okay? Question Did I even know that you were a social worker at that point? I don't think so. Because I definitely was not in the right mind to be a handing out like cyber therapist. No, I don't think so. Isn't that crazy? Yep.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Which is with any patients.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

I don't put affirmations on their board. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. But I did with you. You're the only person I've ever done that with.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

That's so crazy.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

I know. I didn't know that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

I was like, she's handing out affirmations on a platter to everyone. No, I needed that. Like I really did, like it very much grounded me. Yeah. And like, yeah, it was just something that I kept feeling connected to, and I would keep looking at them on the board. Like, and then I remember the next day, I was like, where did that magical nurse go? Like, I bring that day off. I think you did. Yeah. I was like, bring her back. And then when you came back, I think it was, let's see, it would have been Sunday. I remember you came in the room and then you walked out, and I looked at Tori and I was like, I'm just so relieved that she's back. And coming back to everything that we've talked about, I just really think every nurse there was definitely being tender. But I really, really believe that you were the one nurse who I felt really understood the gravity and the magnitude of what was going on for me emotionally and took the time to like sit with that. And I needed that. And in the trauma of it all, that changed the experience and the way that I even can look back on it. I'm so glad. I think that I've talked on the podcast a little bit too about the time that you took me outside. That was the night before I got discharged, but I had a little panic attack because I had blood gushes coming out that were normal. Yes. But I had been stationary for so long that it was still freaking me out. Once I was starting to feel better and getting up and moving around, I was going pee and all this blood was coming out.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

And I don't think she had quite connected the fact that you had hemorrhaged previously.

Trauma Lives In The Body

SPEAKER_03 18:19

I didn't. I still I don't even know when. When did I hemorrhage?

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Right after.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

Right after?

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

I have no idea. Like I think you were still in the OR. Yeah. I had no idea.

unknown 18:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

I mean, I do remember Dr. Pac. Yep. I remember she when I was in the OR, I do remember a little bit of a hustle all of a sudden. Like I remember all of a sudden the room kind of changed. And I think she did say, like, there was a word that she said that I picked up on, but they were so good at hiding that it was a an emergency. Yes. So I had no idea. I didn't really know that I hemorrhaged. I didn't really know what that meant. But yeah, so that night, the night before I got discharged, which I was very much looking forward to going home the next day, having a baby in the NICU and being able to look forward to going home were two things that I thought were not going to be able to coexist the Friday that I had delivered, the day after delivery. But after being in the hospital for so many days, I was ready to go home and get out of the four walls of my. And I'm like, please don't pass out. So we get back inside and I am in the elevator and she's at the front desk, like the root guy. Like, we need to like tell security. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

And she because I told her that as her track. I'm trying to keep up with her. I'm like, well, you should tell them so they can get security on this.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

But then she's like, wait, I pull up the elevator. And she looks at me, she's like, we need to get you back up to the third floor because that floor like double locks or some shit.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

It'll be on lockdown if because she was like, My baby, I don't want anybody coming in for my baby. I'm like, don't worry, do you have to get through two security points to get to your baby? But I was like, what the fuck? Talk about string of bad luck. Yeah. Absurd. And mind you, we also found out that the cops were looking for a guy who escaped the ER at the same time. But it wasn't that guy, right? No. Something was in the air. The cops had picked up and put under observation, escaped the ER, and they were looking for him at the same time. And we I didn't know it yet. And then this guy, like, was it the same person? That was bizarre.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah. What was he doing?

Affirmations On The Whiteboard

SPEAKER_03 22:45

That was no. I know it's weird. You know, it still doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. And you know, he made He may have changed his mind what he was there for. That was weird.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

He stood in front of the doors. He watched it for a while. It was and then he started walking. And that's when she was like, opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

But it was weird because he walked off and he still kind of like was slowly walking. Slowly stopping, looking. Yeah. It was weird. He stopped more than I don't know what was in that bag, but it was something large.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Did they ever like him find him?

SPEAKER_00 23:21

We didn't, yeah, we didn't figure out what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

It was very weird. Yeah. I don't know. Like something by the grace of God that day was like, not today, sir. Like it was weird. That was weird. Can't explain it. Yeah. But like that the fact that happened, the one five-minute period that I leave the hospital. Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

She was like, I'm done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

I'm done with this. Yep. Crazy. So I was very disappointed because I was really having a good vibe out there. And then it was like we had to, I had to really wrap it up.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

It probably did not help her blood pressures at all.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Definitely did not help the anxiety. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Like laying back down in the bed in my room and just feeling like, fuck. That's my baby. I'm actualized there.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

And I was like, I'm never getting out of here. Right. And then I was really terrified to leave her because I'm like, I just made her worse.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

You did offer to stay. You were like, I can stay with you if you want me to. But I was like, girl, you're alive. But now I'm like, I don't know. I've met your husband. Now I probably would have been staying.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

I know. She's like, I don't want to keep you from your husband and kids. I'm like, they're fine. You were like, he's a retired, like, he's staying at home dad. Like, yeah, he's good.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Yeah. That whole experience just feels like a fever dream, especially with how it ended. The last night of so bizarre. But anyway, you getting me outside. I did need that. I did really need that. What I was getting at was like, I just feel like even starting the interview with really talking about the emotional piece. I just don't know as a society here in America. All of our podcasts always emphasize like here in America, here in the United States, we just don't emphasize it. We don't put enough attention on it. We don't put enough support on that. And that is just a very fragile time for a mom, especially if it doesn't go how you expected.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

And the fact that you were present for my whole postpartum experience was just like very divine. I think so too. It really changed, you know. I told you guys I was having like a trauma reaction in my body talking about it a little bit earlier. But I just like you being there really added like a softness to my experience and me being able to look back on it with some grace. I'm so glad. And I have a lifelong friend because you really just meant so much to me in that experience. So thank you. You're welcome. Okay, let's see how we want to wrap up here.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

You remember our emo talk though? You don't? Our emotional talk. I gave you the emotional talk that I told you. Like I kind of started the the podcast explaining where I with similar to the patient.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

Yes, I can feel it in my body, but I don't don't remember it. Yeah. Because I was like, I feel like I remember you doing that with me too.

The Outside Break And A Scare

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yes. We had I had a student nurse at one point. In when I was in Alaska, she and she watched me have these talks with people. And she said, I love your emo talks. And I was like, What? You're and she's like, Your emotional talks. Yeah. And I said, Oh yeah, okay. Because I always picture emo like the 90s emo. I picture like 2000s, like eyeliner. Yeah. And but we did. And I don't even remember if I knew yours. I feel like I did at that point, and you were a social worker. And I was like, hey, I know you know this. I do remember that. And I said, but yeah. I want you to allow yourself to grieve that loss.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

I remember that. It's funny because I had the two social workers that came to visit me in the time that I was in the hospital. Listen, I'm not trying to be bitchy. Okay, because it's so bitchy. But I'm just being bitchy for a second. Laugh if you decide to include it. Listen, they came in and I the first one came in and I started crying immediately because I was like a social worker, like emotional, right? Emotional support. The second that I was like, I'm a social worker too. They were like, Oh, do you know? Oh my girl, that's not what I needed from you right now. Okay. And then I had another one come in. She was like, So you know, like, you know, all the things. I'm gonna tell you what, the last thing I tell my therapist clients is, so you know, because I have a couple clients that are also therapists.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

What would you tell your client?

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Oh god, I hate that question. What would you tell them? I tell them actually what I say to my therapist clients when they go, but like I'm a therapist, I say all the time, doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I'm glad I had that emo talk with you then. Yeah, yep. I tell them all the time, it doesn't matter because I don't care if you're a therapist, you are a human. Like you are a human that trumps everything you know, that trumps your master's degree and mental health. Like, I don't care. And I tell them that point blank, like, nah no no no, I don't care. I'm like, no, no, no, doesn't matter. I don't care. Like, it doesn't, it just doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

Because it being a therapist does not make you immune from life's emotions.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

So you instead of the social workers who were like, Oh, we're not have to worry about you then, you know, like we're on to the next one over here. I was the one who said, I know you know this, but I'm gonna give it you the talk anyways. Yeah. That's I think that's word for word what I'm saying. I think it was too. Yep. And I said, here's here's my talk. I, as moms, we tend to shove our emotions down to try to be strong for everybody else. But you went through a traumatic experience. Yep. And I don't want you to compare it to others. This is having a baby in the NICU is a PTSD experience, and your experience especially is very much going to cause PTSD. Yeah. And I don't want you comparing it to other people's PTSD and trying to excuse it away because a traumatic experience is a traumatic experience regardless of how it happened, regardless of comparing it. And that doesn't matter because this is your lived experience. And it was, I'm giving you the validation. Yeah. It was traumatizing.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

And so I want you at some point to allow yourself the time to grieve.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

Yes, I remember it.

Anxiety Spike And Tender Care

SPEAKER_00 30:20

I'm giving you permission to take the time to grieve that loss because you did not get the birth experience that you wanted, that you dreamt about for nine months. So please allow yourself that time at some point. It doesn't have to be now. You can do it when you're ready, but please take that opportunity. And I'm validating you right now that this is a loss.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

Yep. And I hope that if anyone is listening to this, like you hear that. Because, like you're saying, it's just so easy to minimize. And in the culture of just like birth, there's a lot of like, well, at least.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Yes. And especially with babies that are in the NICU. When I have those moms, I always have the emo talk, and I said, do not let anybody tell you, but at least your baby's alive. Yep. I said, There is no buts in this situation, there is nothing to excuse away and justify because what you're going through is scary. And please don't let anybody minimize that for you. And I I remember I had this one couple, and I gave them that talk, and they said they're already starting to do it. And I said, Don't let them.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

I think people are so uncomfortable with just sitting with really the trauma of that experience for a woman, for a mom.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

And you know what's funny about that is that I feel like my whole entire life I've been that awkward person where you're like, How are you doing? And I'm like, not great. Or I will be honest about the shit that I'm going through, or the awkwardness of situations. Like, I'm very honest about them. I make um other people uncomfortable with how honest I am about things, and so I think that's kind of what makes it perfect for me. Yeah. Because I and that's why I love being one of the nurses who addresses that.

Validating Birth Trauma

SPEAKER_03 32:43

Because I think it's not scooting around the reality of it, yeah. And I like I remember I mean so quickly too, people started to do that to me. Like, he's gonna be okay, or you know, at least he he's not on oxygen, or like this and that. And I'm like, I get it, everyone. I get that, and like this is just horrible, yeah. It's horrible. And when I first got home after having him and being discharged from the hospital, I was really riding on the coattails of like finally I'm home for a couple of days, you know. And then as the days begin to pass and you don't have your baby at home with you, yeah, it is just excruciating. Like I remember fortunately the weekend before he came home. You know, I say fortunately as we're talking about not minimizing and not the well at least, but I was trying to nurse him, and they tell you in the NICU, I've heard sometimes the fastest way to get the baby home is to just let him eat from the bottle because they can measure it. The nurses know, like the weekend before he came home, I was sick, and it was the first time I couldn't go see him, and I was really beginning to lose it on that Sunday because I was just like, this is so unfair. I remember I only was taking off like a certain number of weeks from work because I'm self-employed and I'm losing income taking this time off. And I remember telling Tori, like, I am taking this time off to be with our baby, and our baby's not here. Like, our what I'm wasting this time, like, and we don't even know when he's gonna come home. And I just was feeling so raw. He was only in there for 21 days, but like I'm comparing over here. I know you said only. Only I met moms, right, who were walking down there and they're on like month three, and it's hard not to compare. And I know not to. I know that my experience is valid, I know that it was excruciating for us, but like just every day that passes is the worst. And to know that the nurses are there taking care of him, which they are the best people. The Nikki nurses are amazing, but it's like I remember going in there and feeling like it wasn't my baby, it was their baby, it was their baby because I'm like, can I touch him? Can I change his diaper? Can I feed him? Like, can I is it even an optimal time for me to pick him up and hold him?

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Yeah, like you don't feel like it's your baby, and they have control of even the monitors that you get to watch at home because they can turn it off when they're doing it. Turn it off, yep. They forget to turn it back on.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Yep, that would happen. Sucks. Yeah. And I'm at home in the middle of the night pumping, and my baby is not here.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Yeah.

NICU Guilt, Comparison, And Time

SPEAKER_03 35:52

It's and I'm and at first I was like, okay, this is good for me when I got home really. I was like, I need to get some rest. Like I really did. It, you know, I can look back on it now and say that like that was honestly good for me when we got home without Grayson because I was so traumatized and I was such an emotional wreck that I really, really needed to rest and get some sleep and not come home immediately and deal with a baby. It was kind of like for me to be able to heal and then bring him home, it was what I probably needed. Yeah. Was it is it still at the same time completely unfair? Absolutely. Yeah. You know, but I don't really know where I was even going with that, but it's just because it didn't feel like your baby. Yeah. Yep. And I'm sitting in the middle of the night pumping, just like where this is so painful. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I want to ask you like a question to wrap up. What has being present at so many not at births, but what has been like being present at births. Okay. Fair. Your transition, transitioners. What has been, what does this say? What has being present at so many births just taught you about life?

SPEAKER_00 37:10

I always say that the first few days of life are your hardest. And people think, no way, like being an adult is way harder.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

And I say, no. You know how to breathe on your own. You know how to eat on your own. You know how to take care of bodily functions on your own. And you know how to communicate. Are we good at communicating? No. But we know how. And those first two days, especially when you are trying to figure that out, that's hard. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think people should respect that more and take in the miracle of it. The fact that you go from this environment of not having to do any of those things. Literally, how do we even survive in the womb? It's wild. I know. And then just the process of being exposed to air for the first time triggers a nerve that all of a sudden your heart functions the way it's supposed to. Your lungs start working, and you're supposed to do this all on your own. Also, taking into some social work aspects, Ericsson's develop stages of development, it says the very, very first stage during the first two years, trust versus mistrust. And that was another reason why I pushed for you to go see that baby, because I needed that baby to bond with you. I know. And trust you. Yes. Because so that's and that's why I hate when even older generations come in and and they're like, oh, put that baby down. You don't want to spoil that baby. No. Spoil that baby.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

It's attachment, which is another reason why that was so important to me that you really pushed my head down there. Because I will tell you what, my trauma brain and what I am trained in was sitting there the whole time thinking about how much trauma this would be for Grayson.

unknown 39:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

And especially being a boy.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Because that bond, that that parental bond for men, I feel like, is so much more crucial than it is for females.

SPEAKER_03 39:40

They are behind. Like they're actually born emotionally behind girls. So they do actually need more nurturing than little baby girls. That's actually a fact. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

My first two, I used this like eat, sleep, play training method. And I feel like they're not as emotionally with it as my intelligent later two, where I just focused on just spoiling that baby. I baby wore the third and the fourth. And yeah. Yep. But the other ones I'd put down because I didn't want to spoil them. Yes. They need to be spoiled. They need to be held. It's attachment. Yes. Like they need to trust that you are there for them. Yes. And they are literally learning how to actually choose life. And learning these like signifies they're feeling hunger for the first time. Yep. And they need they they don't understand it. And their only form of communication is to cry. So if your baby's crying, just hold your baby. Yes. Just hold them and love them. And if they need to be held there when they're sleeping, like what then they know. They know you're gonna be there for them. They know that they can trust you, which forms the trust for the rest of their life. The ability to attach.

When It Doesn’t Feel Like Your Baby

SPEAKER_02 41:13

I feel like all of this is so important and it doesn't get talked about enough. Like with the education that we have in attachment and how important that is. Yes. And also at the same time, like I know we talked earlier about wanting those like women's circles or wanting that village, and to hear that so much of the knowledge that's passed down is to just put the baby down. Yes. Like that's disheartening. Yeah. Like it makes me sad to think that you know we've outsourced so much of our intuition. Outsourced intuition, you know, with our later experiences or with like our later babies that we do things differently. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

And if you could speak directly to every new mother listening right now, what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Oh, I have so much to say. I don't think we have enough time. I think that's a whole separate podcast. I've said a ton though. I for like I said, don't come in with a hard, fast, this is how like birth plan. This is be flexible. I think the biggest thing you can say, you know, I'd love it if, but if we can't, that's okay. You know, that's the attitude you need to have. If we can make this happen, that'd be great. If it doesn't turn out that way, that's okay. And the other thing is advocate for yourself. Advocate for yourself and advocate for your baby. Because I think a lot of people are afraid to, and I think some nurses come in really bossy, really controlling, and it's okay to advocate for yourself if you don't nobody else is going to. Yeah. And love on that baby. Also, put your husband to work, man. That's the other thing. Put your husband to work. Nurses are not your servants. I know that we're going more towards hospitality mentality on hospitals, but I assign the dad's tasks. I'll be like, you know what? Your wife grew that baby for nine months and she pushed that baby out or got that baby out somehow. And the least you can do is track the feeds for her and fill up her water every time she breastfeeds because she's gonna know dehydration like no other. Truly. Yes. I and if you have a prenatal class, take it. Because there's so much that is not warned about. Yeah. I could probably do a literally a whole entire podcast with you guys about like what is not pre-warned. I think that would be fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

That's what we were trying to get at with our like postpartum hacks episode that we did where we were like, let's just talk about like all the things that we learned postpartum. So I think we would love to have you back to do like an episode. Well, I've already felt like having a guest has been so fun to like this has been such a great conversation. Like, I'm really I'm excited about this episode.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Part of my like intrusive, like big dream thoughts is that we would all just put each other like in our little pocket and we could start our own like something.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Yep, yeah, yeah. Good birth class, I know women's circle. I know.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Yes, yes, you and your three part-time jobs over there. Remember the new remember the entrepreneurial that's true, which we're always trying to think of a way to make more of a passive income. It's at least a two times a week discussion. Yep, yes. Okay, well, let's wrap it up here. I think. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you listened to the full two hours, I think I definitely will do like a part one, part two. For this conversation. And we are so grateful that you came. This means so much to me that you came. I'm just a little emotional baby over here. But wow, this was really good. This was a great conversation. If any of this podcast resonated with you, please feel free to share with a friend who may also resonate. And we look forward to our next guest. Yes. Yeah. Okay, bye. Bye.