We're back! Postpartum Truths And The Second-Baby Reset

We come back after a long break and get honest about what it takes to keep a passion project alive while raising kids and working. Miranda shares a raw second birth story and how postpartum keeps teaching her surrender, repair, and the value of a real village. 
• taking a slower summer pace to avoid burnout and keep the podcast enjoyable 
• shifting from big plans to one-track focus when scheduling guests and recording 
• feeling “initiated” by the transition from one child to two 
• postpartum emotions colliding at once: grief, guilt, and gratitude 
• centering through basics and leaning on partner support 
• learning that knowledge and statistics do not replace lived experience 
• being sent home from the hospital twice and second-guessing intuition 
• fast labor, missed antibiotics, and the reality of plans changing 
• navigating toddler needs alongside newborn care 
• attachment pressure, disconnection, and the importance of repair 
• noticing unexpected community support and kindness in public spaces 

If this episode spoke to you, subscribe and leave a review so other listeners can find Heart on the Table. New episodes land every other Monday.

Join the conversation on Instagram @heartonthetablepod

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Hello, hello, and welcome back to Heart on the Table.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

It has been several weeks, probably a couple months, since we last released an episode. So thank you all for your patience and for continuing to show up. We really appreciate it. We took some time off originally because I was going to be delivering my secondborn, and life just takes a couple of turns. And it takes a while to get used to a big transition like that. And in other words, like it's summertime. We've been spending more time with our families, and the days have just kind of gotten away from us. So I think when we met, was it like a week or two after I delivered? Brady came over, and we kind of planned out like

We Return And Reset The Pace

SPEAKER_01 1:44

a schedule for when we wanted to record next and what our subjects were gonna be. And when those dates rolled around, it was like I'm not ready, or I forgot I have this going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

I think about like maybe both of us are really idealistic. Like I think I I constantly am having ideas about like the next thing or what I want to be doing. And Miranda was also sharing, like she's very much the same way. So I think, you know, as we're kind of coming back today, that I like I'm just feeling like keeping it low-key through the summer. And also this being something that like we we do, and when we do it, we enjoy it, and we don't feel like this is like taking away from any other time or anything else going on in our lives because we do have two kids and we also both work, and like doing this is definitely a passion project. Yeah, and I want to keep it feeling that way. So I think you know, we were talking beforehand about like instead of keep I think for me, instead of keeping like a running list of every single person we want to interview or every single this and that, like just being more one-track minded and selecting, like, okay, let's try and reach out to this one person and nail down a date for us to be able to interview that person versus okay, here's the five people we want to interview because I think it's just overwhelming.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

I think it would be different if this was like our full-time thing. Absolutely. We could, you know, have all sorts of schedules and things lined up. But and I think too, back to our conversation before we hit record, like if our interest changes, like follow that interest too, right? Like follow, I guess, where where our passion is or where our interests lie, or as that changes, it's not always going to be the same.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Yeah. Yep. So I think in coming back today, like I'm feeling good about being here. I'm excited about like some of what we just talked about beforehand and talking about people to interview. But I think today we were planning on just kind of sharing that update on kind of where we're at with the podcast because I have had like I think two friends reach out to me and be like, Are you still doing your podcast? So, you know, thanks to the two of you for listening and anticipating if we are coming back or not. We are still doing the podcast. I think it's just, I don't want to burn out, you know, like you were postpartum. I have a one-year-old. Listen, things are finally getting easier. He's still my secondborn. So yeah, I think today we'll just keep it kind of chill. I was going to just have Miranda kind of share like what this transition has been like for her, going from one to two. And you know, if you want to share your birth story, you can do that. The focus is kind of on you today. That was kind of my plan if you're okay with that. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

I guess we'll just jump in, but if there's like a direction that we're gonna take, you can roll with it.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Yeah, we can just jump in wherever feels good to you.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

I guess I'm more concerned about my like ability to follow a straight line.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

It feels very scattered. I'm not sure if any of our podcasts follow like a very direct straight line. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Yeah. I wanna say it's almost like uh I mean, because you like you said, you have a one-year-old and you've been navigating

Postpartum Initiation And Raw Emotions

SPEAKER_01 5:24

the two kiddos for a year now, and I almost feel like I've been initiated. Like every transition is an initiation. So like now I get it.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Like I had you don't get it until you get it. I had a friend reach out to me this morning, which I need to text her back.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

There's always a list of people, and I'm like, oh, I need to text them back.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

I'm I'm okay at reading messages, and then I usually mark them as one read on my phone so that I remind myself to go back. But the replying part is so challenging. Like I can read it and I can think, oh my god, that's so sweet. Thank you for reading. I'll think my reply and maybe forget that I didn't. Or like the kids start crying, and I'm like, Oh, okay. So she reached out to me just this morning, and I didn't respond to her last two messages. So I'm so sorry. But just telling me, like, you know, I know what it's like, and I just am thinking about you, and I hope you're doing okay, and so that being said, I feel initiated.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

I remember the first even with with my firstborn, like the first two weeks postpartum is always like an emotional roller coaster. And it still is, but the first two weeks are always the hardest for me. So I just there's nothing like looking at my little family and feeling all kinds of like grief and guilt and gratitude all at the same time, all wrapped into one messy little thing, like all of those emotions I remember flashing through my my soul or my heart or whatever, all at the same time. I was like, wow. This feels very raw, feels very hard and very fragile all at the same time. I was very lucky to have as much time off as I do. Yeah. And my husband got two weeks. He got two weeks last time, which I'm grateful that he gets any, but at the same time, like it's not enough. And I feel like every week or every day is just a small adjustment of like the next change, like anticipating going back to work myself. I'm like, hey, what do I need to do to get started? How can I prepare for this other transition? Like it's all transition.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah. Which you're still somewhat working right now, yeah. Because you are seeing clients.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah, I am seeing some clients in the evenings or and that's been really good. It's been challenging. I mean, even finding a new office space lately, which I was like, oh my god, just another thing I have to do. Yeah. But it's been great, and I think that's probably just what my life is gonna look like from now on. Like how to juggle the next thing. Yeah, every time I think I got it down, something inevitably changes, and I'm back to where I started. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

I feel like we can never get too comfortable with like how things are. Like I don't I don't think that I don't know. I think that we just have to be comfortable that like reality will always kind of change and shift, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Yeah, definitely. And I think I've definitely noticed that like where is my center, or like where is some stability as all of this is changing. Like I I need something to hold on to, which I think brings me to the next thing I wanted to kind of mention was just that this second this whole second pregnancy and this whole second postpartum has taught me a lot about letting go and surrender. And there is there's definitely a small part of me that's like looking to hold on to something familiar, or like looking to hold on to something stable when everything feels like it's being turned upside down or rearranged. Like, where's my center?

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Yeah. What is your center through this transition, through the new addition to somebody

Finding Center Through Surrender

SPEAKER_00 9:45

in your life, in your family? Like, what is how have you been centering yourself? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

I think just coming back to the basics, like coming back to the small things of like what I need or what my little family needs. I feel incredibly lucky to feel immensely supported by my husband. Like there were so many times in the first two weeks where I was like, what is this? Like, why why am I feeling like this, or what's going on? Or I would constantly like apologize, which I know, I know all of the statistics, I know all of the research, I know all of the things, but it's still like when you're in it. It doesn't matter what you know, and he was so kind to remind me, like, you know, you're going through a lot, like it's fine, you know, I'll be right here, and what do you need? Like, I feel incredibly grateful for his support through that, and it looked different this time than it did last time because we didn't know what we were doing the first time, or you don't know what you don't know the first time. And even with this second experience, like I knew more and I felt like I was better prepared, and it still didn't go anything according to how I thought it was gonna go, which is fine. But there's still more, you know, that I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Always. It's funny that you say, like, you know, we know all the research, all the statistics, all of the things, all of the Kobe mechanisms, as we're like both therapists, right? Like, we we know all of this, and yet like you just can't, I don't know, that just doesn't compare or do anything for actually like the lived experience of being human, right? Like it's I always tell my like helping profession clients that too, because they're like, I know, I know what I'm supposed to be doing, and I'm like, girl, we all do, right? Like, we all know the things, but it's like human experience is something different than knowing what we should be doing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah, definitely, and you can know all the things, but like living the embodied experience is nothing can prepare you for that, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:08

You can read all the research and you can do all of the all of the things, you can pay thousands of dollars for your master's degree in mental health and still struggle. I want to ask you when you say like you've had to kind of you know revisit letting go over and over and over again, what kinds of things have like challenged that or brought that up? Where like where has that really come up for you that you've had to like kind of embody or remind yourself why that's important? Oof. We start at the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

I felt like that theme really started to come up and I journaled about it a little bit before he was born. But being, you know, in your third trimester with a second with a toddler, excuse me. I didn't want to wish that time away. Does that make sense? Like I felt kind of there's a part of me that felt kind of bad for wishing that it was over already. The pregnancy. That he was here and that we could move on.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

It's so much harder when you have another little human and take care of. Yeah. Like the first one, you had to nap and relax, take your time, and it's just so not that way the second

Late Pregnancy With A Toddler

SPEAKER_00 13:33

time through.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Which I have thought about that, like back to my first experience. I was like, I could sit in the rocking chair, I could read a book, I could watch a show. I was like, if I could go back and tell myself what I know now then, like, which I kind of did get it. Yeah. Like there was a part of me then that was like, this isn't gonna be the same next time.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Enjoyable laughs, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

But oh boy. Just I was I was ready to be done. I was I think mentally prepared, maybe kind of emotionally prepared, but physically, I was very, very done. Yeah. Physically, I was very over it. And you know, my first came like five days early, so I was like, you know, second, second time I've heard that they come earlier. So I'm like, they're gonna, you know, we're gonna be done before we know it. And I kept kept counting on that or kept betting on that, and you know, I was could be as prepared as I as I could be, and I was just I was I was kind of ready to be done. And I was like, it's gonna be this week. I have a feeling about today. Why were you texting me so many times?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

I think he's coming today.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Nope, he didn't come. You didn't. I yeah, I went to the hospital, I think, in total, twice I was sent home, which oh my god, nothing could have prepared me for feeling so disheartened at being sent home.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Oh I'm sure. Well, you okay, remind me, weren't you sent home the day that you delivered too?

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yeah, you she was sent away the day that she she delivered.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Which was so hard. So it was like a week. A week before I actually delivered. I think I went in and was like, you know, today's the day. And I the first my first experience with labor, my water popped at four in the morning. And so I didn't really have the contractions like leading up to it. I had contractions, but it wasn't like it's time to go in now. It was just like, oh my water broke, it is time to go in.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

So this time I had, you know, it was different. I didn't know what those contractions felt like. I didn't know what the pre-labor experience was like because my water just broke the first time. And so learning to try to like tune into what my body was trying to tell me, I was like, this is it. And you know, I've heard you know, secondborns also come faster. So it was very on edge. I also needed antibiotics. That's right. That I was trying to control the experience and very much was handed something completely different. I need to be there with enough time to get those antibiotics, you know, to have a safe delivery. Nope. I didn't even get the antibiotics. Yeah, we'll get into that. But like being sent home the first time really sucked. I was like, I feel like I'm trying to listen to my body, and I'm being told, you know, these machines are telling them, telling me that it's not time.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah. Like, how do I know? It was just very so much anticipation too. Ugh.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

And I wanted, they have this program called Simply Birth, and I wanted that experience. Again, I was reading all of the literature like books and experiences, and I really wanted that. Yeah. And I didn't quite want like a home birth because I still wanted to be someplace where like emergency medical intervention could could happen if I needed it.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Yeah. Which

Sent Home While Labor Builds

SPEAKER_00 17:27

simply birth is like it's like a you're in the hospital, but it's more of a hands-off, hands-off kind of intervention, home-ish, like home-based setting in a hospital. Yeah, which that didn't go according to that either. So does it ever no? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

And while I'm like so grateful for this experience, it was still nothing like how I thought it was gonna be. Like not according to to plan at all, which is another theme of like letting go of my of my expectations for that. But being home, being sent home the second time the same day, I delivered. We I so I woke up at like two in the morning that morning with with contractions. I woke up and I was like, This is it. Which I'm not sleeping great at that point, anyways. No, yep. So when I woke up and I started timing them, I think I laid there with my phone in in my bed and was just like click, like would time the contraction, maybe fall asleep and was like, oops. Yeah, but would time them. But yeah, timing them. We got up, got ready. I was working from home at that point for my day job. And my husband went to work. I went to my parents' house with my little boy just for some additional support. Yeah. And by like, I think 9 30 or 10 o'clock, I had decided. I I did some curb walking. I was doing everything at that point. Oh my gosh. Like to try to progress. And so at some point I just decided, you know, I need four hours. Like they're this far apart. Like, let's go. So I called my husband, he came and got me. And we went in, and they checked me, and I hadn't dilated any further, which was what were you dilated at? Uh, I think it was a three.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

I think it was a three.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

I was a three for like a week.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

That's what I was when I delivered Charlie.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Which for the first delivery with my with my first kiddo, I was I think at a at like a four or five forever. Oh. And then I went from six to ten, like that much. But the doctor couldn't get there fast enough for my first one either. I mean, she did, but she just like walked in the room and there's Fabi. We were done. But yeah, so we went to the hospital, and the same nurse that was there monitoring me a week before was there, and I was like, I'm back. They kept me two hours, which I think two hours is their standard, and if you don't make any change in that time, send you home. But I think they pitied me because I was very mentally and physically over it at that point. I you could kind of see like the the messages. The computer was unlocked. Yes, right? Because you can see the the monitoring, the heart rate, and everything like that. And you could also see the messages that were being sent to the doctor. And one of the messages was like, She seems pretty, like, oh, like disheartened, or she seems like she's having a hard time. So again, I think they pitied me and kept me for another hour. And after that hour, when they checked me and I hadn't changed, they sent me home.

unknown 20:52

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Which I also need to give context. Miranda lives far from where she delivered. About 45 minutes. That's far. And then to know that you're gonna go home and if you have to go back, it's another 45-minute drive. And I felt so bad at that point.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

I was like, I, you know, asked Chase to get off work. Yeah. Like he doesn't have a lot of time to spare, and I don't want him to cut into the two weeks he gets. I know I felt so frustrated. I felt like I was wasting people's time. I remember walking past the desk of nurses when I sent home the last time, and I couldn't even like look at any of them. I just like kept my gaze down. I was like, this sucks. But yeah, at that point, a different nurse had changed shift. She came in and talked to me, and she was very sweet. This is the first time I'd met her. She came in to tell me to go home. Like that was my first experience meeting this nurse, but she was so kind. Like, she was like, I have, I can't remember how many kids she had, five or six kids. She's like, I wasn't home. She was like, I know how this feels, and I'm so sorry I have to be the one to tell you. But she's like, we can't keep you. So she was very empathetic and very just compassionate, and I was the water works. Like I was just sitting on the bed feeling so done. I was like, You're so sweet, and I don't want to go home. So we stuck around downtown. Thank God we went and had lunch and continued to time them. I think timing it and you know, it's time and going in and being three centimeters still. Like, I was like, forget it. I was like, we're just gonna, we're just gonna wait. Like it was very much like a throw my hands up in the air situation.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

But I still like there was a part of me that was like, you still need four hours of antibiotics, girlfriend. Like Yeah. So again, immensely, incredibly grateful for my husband who was there. To keep my head on straight or at least his head on. Went and ate, continued to time them. Went to a bookstore, walked around, went to the bookstore.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

It's like a squeeze comb. For anyone who doesn't know. It's like a labor comb.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yeah, the acupuncture points in your hand to squeeze when you're having a contraction. Just to distract, I think, from the pain. Went to the bookstore, decided it was time to go back. When they were really like two minutes apart, it was like, okay, we really better go now. Yeah. There was a part of me that still was like nah. We're gonna wait till it's an emergency. We pulled into the parking lot and they stopped completely.

unknown 23:37

Shh.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

My contraction stopped completely. They got farther and farther apart and then they stopped. And I was like, well, they for sure as hell aren't taking me now. Oh my god. What do we do? What do we do? So we went home. We drove 30 minutes to my parents' house. And I hadn't seen my toddler all day, so I was kind of ready to go see him. It was like five o'clock in the evening. It had been a long day already, so I was ready to to see him, and also I was in a really poor mood. I was bummed and exhausted and frustrated with myself. Continued to have contractions. Was sitting on the couch when I was ex like when I was going, I was having a contraction, and this little one kicked me and popped my water. And I was like, fantastic. So I was like, it's time. Oh my gosh. Which once the water pops, like your contractions get so much worse. They do, yep. Yes, they do. Oh my god. That 30-minute drive hitting any pothole, I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna die. Yeah. So we jumped in the car and went back to the hospital. Sat on a bright pink towel the whole way there. Parked the first floor in the parking garage. My husband offered to drop me off by the door. He's like, Do you want me to drop you off? Like, and I'll go park and I'll come to you, like I'll come meet you. And I

Water Breaks And The Rush Back

SPEAKER_01 25:15

was like, do not leave me. He's like, I will walk, it's fine. Walking even across the street from the parking garage to the hospital was brutal. I had to stop like every 25 feet and go through a contraction. At some point, we got off the elevator that took us like a half a floor up to the street level. I was like shuffling and squeezing the comb, squeezing my husband's arm, and had a towel between my legs. It was just, it was, I was like, people walking out of this hospital probably. I know what I feel. I think there were two employees walking out of their shift and they were like, Do you need a wheelchair? I was like, Yes, please. At that point, one of the security guards was bringing down a wheelchair. And I was like, Oh, thank God. I think if they hadn't, I probably never would have made it upstairs. So we my husband wheels me upstairs. I told the nurses at the desk, I was like, I'm back. I was like, I was here not four hours ago. Like, I'm back. Still had to check in, even though I was still had to check in. They're like, Why are you here? You know, just to determine if I needed to m go to a triage room or not. And I was like, my water broke, like this baby's coming. Like, move me to an actual room, please, as soon as possible. I deserve to be here now. Let me in, please. So they did, they wheeled me to the Simply Birth Experience room, and I got on the bed. We didn't unpack any of our bags. I had all sorts of coping mechanisms with me. I was really excited or looking forward to trying like the the laboring in the tub. Yeah. I didn't even see the thing. I don't even know what the tub looked like. Like we didn't even get that far. And you know, I had all the the oils and the setting, the mood, like the speaker. Of course you did. I didn't pull any of it out. I remember walking into the room, they had this big like panoramic window, and I saw the view, and I was like, that's a beautiful view. And that was the last I remember looking at that. Like it went so fast. She was, you know, I was on the bed and she was checking. She had to monitor for I think when you get there, they have to monitor for like 30 minutes before you can take the monitors off. Um, and all the while asking me questions that you know, I'm, you know, contractions are closer and closer together. I couldn't answer them, so like Chase answered them for me. But I told Chase, maybe this is gonna get too graphic, but I told him I was like, I was like, I need to go to the bathroom. I was like, I need to, I need to go like get me off of this bed, like walk me to the bathroom. Uh-huh. But there was a part of me that knew that that was time to call the nurse back in. I was like, hit the red button. I was like, call her back in and tell her I need to go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

So he did in. I'm sure when a nurse hears, I need to go to the bathroom when you're actually in labor, they're like, oh no.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah. She was like, no, no, no. She's like, stay on the bed. She's like, I'm coming right back. I was halfway off the bed. I was like, I'm moving, I'm getting off this bed. So one foot on the bed, one foot off the bed, just kind of sitting there. Yeah. And she was like, I think she wanted to come in and check me, but there was no freaking way. Like, all of the like there was another nurse that brought in some supplies, and the nurse that was in there that we called in there, she was like, It's time, like, bring everyone in. And the doctor wasn't there. Oh my god. My doctor definitely didn't make it there. The on-call doctor didn't make it there, which I just think it's funny. Like, my doctor has missed two out of two of my birth, which is fine.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

You guys laughing at that. We do have a guest here. Yes. Yeah. My second born is with me.

unknown 29:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

I keep catching his little breaths on the microphone. It's cute. Oh, do you? Uh-huh. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Maybe hookego. Okay. Anyways, all of a sudden, like the room was full and never made it to the bathroom. They flipped me, I flipped over on my hands and knees, which was very different from my first experience. I had an epidural. There was a point, I guess I should back up a bit, where I thought, I can't do this. Like, get me this, get me the epidural.

Fast Delivery And Missed Antibiotics

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Yeah. Which I'm realizing is like that moment of transition. It is. But the logical part of my brain was like, you're not getting an epidural. Like it's gonna take 15 minutes for the anesthesiologist to get up here, and then it's gonna take another 15 minutes for it to work. I was like, this isn't happening. But there was a part of me was like, I can't do this, you're gonna have to move me. Like, that's it. Anyways, things progressed so fast after that. Yep. Ended up on like my hands and knees and was just like gutturally like screaming into the pillow. I thought afterwards, I was like, I feel so bad for anybody who's here, like listening to me scream. Which the next two days that we were there, there were lots of babies born. So I was like, there had to have been somebody who thought, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

When I was in the hospital waiting to give birth with Grayson, like I've slept in the hospital for two night nights before I had my C-section, and there was somebody who came in at like, I think it was like midnight or one in the morning, and I was terrified listening to her. I was like, and the nurse came in to check me, and I was like, is that woman okay? She was like, Yeah, she just transitioned very quickly. Oh my god, sounded like she was dying. Yeah, yep, yep. Which I think is what I sounded like when I was giving birth to Charlie too.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Yep, yeah, yeah. Was the craziest experience ever. Like, again, I'm grateful for the experience myself. None of it went according to how I thought. None of it went according to plan. Which is fine. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

He's like, Yeah. Oh, so cute.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Smile. Um, but yeah, feeling the whole thing. Um that was an experience unlike any other. Yeah. And I know for sure, well, after the fact, I know that like Chase was felt helpless. He was like, there's nothing I can do. He's just trying to make room for the doctors. Meanwhile, the nurses are trying to stick me for the antibiotics. Oh gosh. And I was like, you are not poking me right now. Like, yeah, it's too late. It's you won't even get five minutes. Like, no. This isn't happening. Um so yeah, because I didn't get the antibiotics that we had to stay for 48 hours. Yeah. But everything was okay. Which was a long time. It was more time than I was planning to be away from my toddler. Which again comes in the theme of like grief and guilt for being away for so long. And also gratitude. Like those three things are just common. The three G's grief, guilt, and gratitude. So yeah. Yeah, it was quiet and exciting. I think we got there oh 7:30. And he was here by like 8 07. Oh my gosh. And it was less than 30 minutes. That is wild. Crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

It was so fast. That is so fast. My gosh.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

So I did one of the nurses on the like recovery side had mentioned to me, she's like, So are you gonna have to be induced with your next one if you if you have any more kiddos? And I was like, I hope not. Like, that's not my plan. And yeah. She was like, Well, my so-and-so she knew personally was like because her labors happened so fast, they like had to plan to induce. So I did ask like my doctor at the six-week checkup. I was like, Am I gonna have to be induced if I ever have this experience again? And she's like, No, we'll just keep you. We'll just keep you sooner. And I was like, Well, I try not send you away.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Yes. So yeah, when you're going in there and you're like, I'm telling ya. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Which is kind of reassuring. Cause the whole time I was second guessing myself and my my own intuition or my own bodily experience, and was getting pretty frustrated there at the end. I know, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

But then to, you know, realize after the fact that I was right the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

I know.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

I feel like our intuition is just up against like the healthcare system sometimes and how it is designed and how it works. And it's like me with my pre-eclampsia experience. I'm like the whole time, I'm like, I have pre-clampsia. Yeah, this is not normal, that is not normal, and what of it? Right?

SPEAKER_01 34:39

Yeah. Yeah. So I guess that was the experience in a nutshell. But even in the days following, or in the in the two weeks following and every day since I guess they say that you know going from one to two is easy. I don't think that it is. That's not been my experience. Agree with you. And not, I guess it's I guess it's easier in the sense that like I'm I know I know a little bit more about what to expect from a baby. But navigating my relationship with my toddler and my newborn has been hard.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Has been bittersweet, has been, you know. Okay, we're back. You might hear our guest here, little Ollie, with us as he is. He just finished eating, so you know, he's getting back, getting comfortable, being burped, all the good baby things. But I

One To Two Kids And Attachment Guilt

SPEAKER_00 35:36

think where we left off, I think Miranda was talking about adjusting from one to two versus adjusting from none to one in motherhood and how they they do often say adjusting from one to two is more easy, and I think it is in some ways, but I also think it is more difficult when you're trying to balance like life with you know your toddler who still very much wants your attention and then baby.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that would I would say that that's been like the hardest part for me. Yeah, it's hard, and I think again to the theme of like letting go. Like I had to let go of like my firstborn being the baby, and he's grown up so much in the last two months. I know, like we're working on potty training, he's able to put together more sentences, he's you know, got more of an imagination. There are some times when like you know, he'll say something or her do something when he bonds with the baby is so sweet, like yeah sorry, it's totally fine. I'm letting him bond on his own time, yeah. So like watching him do that on his own is very sweet when he interacts with Ollie. Oh, we're gonna fuss. You gotta bubble. But there are definitely some times where he's like, I need you. Or like, I want a hug or something like that. And he can ask for it, which is so nice. Yeah, like he can communicate that, but also breaks my heart in the sweetest way, like it's just hard.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

It is hard, and it's hard to, you know, coming back to when we're talking about like all the knowledge and all the things that we know about as therapists. It sometimes I wish I knew less because I feel like there's a lot of guilt sometimes around my own, like, you know, the knowledge that I have around attachment. Like, uh, like there's totally times where I I miss the opportunity to, you know, I there's moments where it's just like I'm not that was not a good moment for me, right? And I feel so much guilt because I'm like, oh, I know about attachment and all these things and how to do a good enough job. And it's just hard with the demands of motherhood. That made me think of I was in a consultation group earlier this week, and he was talking about how we need disconnection in order to have like a secure attachment. He was just talking about you do have to have disconnection because attachment is all about reconnect. What does it look like to repair? How do you reconnect? How do you reattach? So I was like, well, that's you know, somewhat good to know as navigating two little babies is difficult. Yeah. There's there's unfortunately a lot of disconnection sometimes between me and Charlie.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Yeah. There have definitely been numerous times in the last couple weeks as I've been home on my own. I've navigating two kiddos, because right, chase us back to work. Yep. That like I call him and I'm like, my patience is so thin and I feel terrible and I just snapped and you know, we'll call and tell him about it, which I'm sure is hard for him to hear. Like he wants to be home and he's happy. He's at work and wants to be supportive and and at the same time, I think coming back to the I'm sorry, like the the repair part of it, like is hard. I don't know that Theo he just moves on. Like he doesn't it's not like he accepts my apology or really understands what I'm trying to do. Which makes like the fact that I, you know was a little impatient all that much more hard. But yeah. I think expanding it's expanding, it's stretching, it's navigating new new and unfamiliar territory. Like which it's supposed to be. I mean, I didn't think this was going to be the same the first time.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Yeah, you hope sometimes though. Thinking about me and my son, I'm like, I hoped you were gonna be as easy as your sister was, but you were not. And that again brings us back to letting go.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

And I think too, maybe part of what's been a little bit challenging for my husband and I is that we are both firstborns. So am I. So navigating what this experience is like for our own firstborn, I think there is definitely some projection coming up.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Yep. So is my husband. He's a firstborn too. So I'm like, it is definitely yeah, different.

unknown 40:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

At the end of the day, when we have our conversations, like when we finally have a moment to like sit and talk, because you can't really talk when babies are growing. Oh no. Like you talk to your husband. We just we just operate, like we understand each other so well that we just fill in the blanks. But you know, at the end of the day when all the lights are low and we're low stim for this little newborn and our toddler's asleep upstairs, it's always like, Did I do enough? Yeah. Did you know, do we think did they have a good day? How was how was that for them today? I don't know, but like try better tomorrow. Right. So yeah. Well that's what it's like. Yeah it's raw and it's emotional and it's yeah vulnerable. I have had, I will say though, that I've noticed maybe a lot more the second time just the incredible importance of a village and or of just people who also value family, children, and mothers. Like we've been out and about a couple of times. Yeah. There was one time I went to the grocery store by myself. I just took my newborn with me. There was no way I was going to navigate a toddler and a newborn at the store on my own during the day. But so I dropped off my toddler to play with his cousin and my parents. But going to the store, that experience like I had as I walked in to grab a cart, like I had a woman tell me just congratulations, because I was wearing my baby on my chest so I can do other things and was just very sweet, like just made me smile. And then at the end of that shopping

Repair After Disconnection With Toddlers

SPEAKER_01 41:59

experience, I was I still had him on my chest, so I was kind of curtsying into the cart to try to grab all of the stuff. Like my arms aren't long enough, and I can't bend over the edge of the cart. And the mom behind me loaded my groceries onto the belt for me, and then she had her two older daughters bag my groceries for me. Oh, that's amazing. I was like, Thank you so much. Like this is very sweet. Yeah. And then I had a gentleman at Lowe's tell me congratulations too when I was wearing him on my chest. It was just, it's just nice to absolutely see that or experience that feel that out in the world.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Yeah. I was walking Charlie and Grayson in our wagon, and so I had the sun visors up. And this woman was walking at the park, and she was like, Grayson started coughing and it was like a little bit breezy. So I thought she said, Is it the wind? And I went, what did I say? Said, oh, I said, a little bit, and she was like, Oh, a little bit, that's so funny. She was like, I bet you have your hands full, have so much fun. And I was like, Wait, what just happened? And then I realized as I was walking, she asked me, Are they twins? And I said, a little bit. And so she was like, Oh, that's so funny, a little bit, because she couldn't see Charlie, she could only see Grayson. And I was like, Oh my god, I'm gonna be thinking about this for a second. So I like saw her and I was hoping we were gonna cross paths again so I could be like, oh my god, I realized you said, are those twins? They're not twins. So I was just like, it was one of those social interactions where you're just like, Yeah, not quite. This woman was just trying to be cute and nice. Like, I'm like, if I would have pulled down the visor Charlie's, she would have been like, oh, those are not twins. I mean, they, you know, they do share a lot of similar physical characteristics, but they're very visibly different in age.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

I mean, when you get it, you get it, right? Absolutely. My ability to hold a conversation even is very difficult.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Okay, well, why don't we wrap up here? Yes. Thank you so much for listening. If you returned to listening, I haven't even checked our statistics. I'll be honest, I think it's been pretty bare bones the past little bit. Um, but if you listen to this episode, thanks so much. We're hoping to, as I said, kind of you know, bring it back online here and there as we are, you know, navigating the summer with our families and all of that. So thanks for listening. Yes, thank you so much. Yep. Bye.